Saturday, September 26, 2020

Aermacchi MB-339A for Microsoft Flight Simulator - BETA TEST



Beta test is open to testers of all different skill levels and expertise.
In order to apply for the Beta Test, please drop an email to with the following information:
- System specification (no need of details or long explainations: just specify your CPU, Clock speed, RAM, GPU and dedicated video RAM)
- Real world flight experience (if any) - please keep it short!
- Simulation experience - please keep it short!
- Any special tie to the MB-339 or any reason why you really want to test this plane

Important! Subject of the email must be "MB339 MSFS Beta Test Application".

Please do not apply unless you have 4-5 hours to dedicate to test this aircraft!
Testing this aircraft is NOT a paid position in any way...if you do it, you do it only for the fun of it!

...and, due to the large number of applications we typically receive, we cannot grant a reply to everybody. If you do not receive a reply in a week or so, please assume you have not been admitted to the Beta - apologies in advance! 


This is a medium complexity add-on which is meant to depict the Aermacchi MB-339 of the Frecce Tricolori in a detailed but accessible way. The key points of the package are as follows:
- Focus of the simulation is the Aermacchi MB-339PAN/MLU version. Visual variant for MB-339A/MLU is also provided
- Highly detailed external and internal model
- Flight model and systems simulation is based on default MSFS functionalities (no external code)
- Simple sound package 

The plane is intended for basic military jet training, formation flying and aerobatics.


Add-ons for Microsoft Flight Simulator are distributed as packages. Packages shall be placed in the "Community" folder. You will need to restart MSFS if the simulator was running when you have moved the files.


The preferred way to report bugs is to add a comment to this post, specifying what is the experienced malfunction and when it happens. Pics are welcome.
PLEASE do not rush in reporting bugs - it is not a race - take your time and verify if it is a real problem and, if you think it is, try to understand when it happens exactly.
Alternatively, an email is good to. Comments are preferred so that other users can see them.
It is not a race, so take your time. The simulation is quite complex, so it may take some time to get acquainted with the plane… I'd suggest you log at least a couple of hours before submitting any feedback.
Also, PLEASE, before posting a bug make sure it is not already in the list below.


Red - Higher priority: a severe bug that may hamper the usage of the aircraft
Yellow - Lower priority: definitely a defect, but not a high priority to solve it
Green - Problem solved, o mitigated to the level that it is acceptable.Dark Green - Problem solved or mitigated before the Beta 1 release.
Blue - Comment, nice-to-have features or suggestions


Current tester version BETA 1 - Released on 28/09/2020
Current internal build BETA 2 WIP 

Current metrics:

Red items: 0
Yellow items: 11
Green items: 41
Blue items: 1  
Progress toward release 78% :-(

Last changed by Dino on 10/10/2020


There are two external models in the package. The star of the show, and default selection, is the MB-339PAN/MLU with standard loadout for the Frecce Tricolori Airshow. As visual alternative, a model for MB-339A (non MLU) with elliptical tiptanks is also provided. Externally MLU and non-MLU differ mostly for the fact that MLU has formation lights and some of the antennas are in different positions.
The two external models are separate files and should be tested separately - if you find a problem, please check if it is present in one or both models. 

MB339EXT001 - Better heat blur effect - slightly improved in Beta 2 (still somewhat small, but now aligned to the aircraft direction)...
MB339EXT002 - Missing Ice Blast effect - added ice blast effect
MB339EXT003 - Check beacon light on fuselage (visible only from below)? - FIXED in Beta 2
MB339EXT004 - Flood lights peek slightly through external views... FIXED in Beta 2
MB339EXT005 - Missing Landing Light animation from external model... FIXED in Beta 2


As for the external model, two separate virtual cockpit models are included: PAN and A versions. Unlike the external models, both internal models include MLU changes. The PAN version differs from the A version since it lacks the gunsight but has smoke indicators and smoke control panel.

MB339VC001 - Throttle lever movement incorrect and should have STOP position - Fixed
MB339VC002 - GPS Display incomplete
MB339VC003 - MASTER CAUTION cannot be snoozed - Fixed
MB339VC004 - Caution panel incomplete (add at least JPT LIMIT and AIL SERVO) - FIXED in Beta2
MB339VC005 - Backlighting of main panel cannot be turned off
MB339VC006 - RNAV HSI mode to be checked
MB339VC007 - RNAV ADI mode to be checked
MB339VC008 - Control shift selectors always lit - FIXED in Beta2
MB339VC009 - Radio system not working? TO BE CHECKED, IT SHOULD WORK! - Checked: radio system seems to work as advertised, but mouse area is small. It is possible to use it with the mouse wheel, while dragging is somewhat cumbersome.
MB339VC010 - Transponder system not working? TO BE CHECKED IT SHOULD WORK! - Checked: radio system seems to work as advertised, but mouse area is small. It is possible to use it with the mouse wheel, while dragging is somewhat cumbersome.
MB339VC011 - Fuel total selector not working....not meant to work either, but still... - FIXED in Beta2
MB339VC012 - Fuel digital display not working - missing to be added - FIXED in Beta2
MB339VC013 - Trim buttons do not work - CHECKED versus flight manual: these are advisory lights only, cannot be pushed.
MB339VC014 - VOR needles on HSI are OK on ILS, but seem reversed in normal VOR operation (to be checked) - NOTE, initial check seems to be OK...maybe tester had the aircraft symbol reversed? If flying to TO station and heading towards bearing pointer 1, if aircraft symbol is upward behavior seems correct... further testing planned. BEHAVIOR SEEMS CORRECT
MB339VC015 - Unintended garbage geometry when canopy is open - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC016 - Would be nice to add ajustable formation lights
MB339VC017 - GEN1 and GEN2 weird glare - seems OK now, but in reality the bug was somewhat unclear...
MB339VC018 - Nav light selector should only select ON/OFF (bright/dim not selectable) - FIXED
MB339VC019 - Glitch in Transponder animation (some numbers not animated correctly) - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC020 - Electrical system: some systems are working even if battery is off provided that GEN 1 / GEN 2 are off even if engine was not running (hence electrical power shouldn't be available)... Issue likely due to Electrical Power availability variable...Should be fixed on Beta2... 
MB339VC021 - Toe brakes animation missing - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC022 - COM2 cannot be changed from cold and dark?
MB339VC023 - Speedbrake lever animation missing - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC024 - Request to animate the trim hat switch - FIXED for Beta 2 (although only for elevator)
MB339VC025 - Suggestion to remove the mouse tooltips for some controls, as they are done according to FSX/P3D conversion which is different from Asobo convention.
MB339VC026 - AOA frozen in icing condition even if anti-ice is on...
MB339VC027 - Digit "3" in altimeter shows too soon - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC028 - blinking glass in gunsight rendering - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC029 - AoA needle shows incorrect values - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC030 - Armament panel setting to be revised - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC031 - Fix Ail Servo and JPT limiter starting conditions - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC032 - Oxy Flow Switch incorrect position -. FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC033 - GPS switches to be fixed according to new GPS Code - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC034 - Anti-Skid switch animation / light reversed - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC035 - Avionic master radio knob control does not work
MB339VC036 - Improve mirror rendering - FIXED for Beta 2
MB339VC037 - OMI Markers not working
MB339VC038 - Some lights are not visible in the VC - Fixed


The flight model has been tuned to mimic the performance of the MB-339PAN with airshow loadout. In this configuration the aircraft is somewhat slower than what most people think - achieving 350-370 knots maxium depeding on different factors.
The fuel capacity is limited to internal tanks only, irrespective of the external model.
NOTE: The aircraft should be able to fly all the formation maneuovres of the Frecce Tricolori programme, but is currently unable to replicate some parts of the solo programme.

MB339FM001 - Check center of gravity and COG limits - Revised in Beta 2
MB339FM002 - Max altitude about 30000ft (should be 45000+) - Engine performance vs altitude fixed in Beta 2
MB339FM003 - No stall? - Revised stall behavior for Beta 2
MB339FM004 - Aircarft too sensitive to NWS during takeoff run
MB339FM005 - Rudder effectiveness is excessive?
MB339FM006 - Request to implement external and wingtip fuel tanks
MB339FM007 - Landing AoA is incorrect


Due to MSFS limitations, the smoke system is NOT WORKING - although controls in the cockpit do work.
The sound system is using FSX legacy mode - hence some sound effects (e.g.rain sounds) are NOT supported.

MB339OT001 - Rework view order for those who do not use free look mode (apparently left and right instrument views are inverted) - FIXED in Beta 2
MB339OT002 - Review startup conditions
MB339OT003 - One user requested wider view angles for both landing and instrument views


Baldur said...

Green/Yellow bugs (Don't know how to color text in comments)
-Copilot camera does not seem to work despite being available in the camera menu
-Plane has a tendency to spawn in full throttle, however the parking brake is on
-When opening canopy while engines are on, plane still has sound-proof engine noises (This dosen't really matter though)
-The Aeronautica Militare Camouflage livery has red markings (On tail, stabilizers, and tanks) despite the real livery having identical Orange markings.
Otherwise everything works great, the aircraft feels very nice to fly and is very accurate. These are very minor problems and i have only tested for a few hours.

Baldur said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ScimmiaSpaziale said...


- Copilot camera is not available, not it will be. We'll check if it is possible to remove from the options.
- Not sure if spawn throttle can be controlled
- As per the notes in the blog, the sound is based on the legacy FSX system...hence it is not dependent on the status of the canopy
- AMI Camo markings: will double check the color match, however in that livery paint was actually more red and glossy when it was new, and then became lighter (and less glossy) over time...

Baldur said...

Right, forgot about the sound system. Yeah i worded the camera thing weirdly what i meant was that it showed up in the menu at all that was weird. Regarding the AMI camp the worn paint explanation makes sense, just went off of Google pictures.

loic said...

yellow bug: the warning light cannot be turned off by pressing the button

Jbomb said...

So far I have only found a few bugs not listed on the MB-339 (Apparent on Both Versions):

Heat blur effect goes vertically out if the engine about a couple of feet aft of the tail rather than coming horizontally out of the engine - Yellow

Beacon light on the upper central fuselage is only visible from below - Yellow

Take-off trim buttons do not work - Yellow

Radio doesn’t work - Red

Nav lights do not select (Can select steady and flash but not bright, dim or off) and can only be seen from in front - Yellow

Transponder doesn’t work - Yellow

Fuel total switch and gauge doesn’t work - Yellow

No sound when travelling the gear - Yellow

Although I suspect the transponder and radio could be because it is a lite version. Overall it is nice to fly, albeit with a more simplistic flight model (again I suspect this will be a selling point of the full version) If you could let me know what systems are intentionally left out and which are being worked on that would be great!

Unknown said...

is it normal that the center of gravity is so much on the front?

ScimmiaSpaziale said...


fact that Master Caution cannot be snoozed is already listed


Heatblur - listed...unfortunately there are very few effects available and you have to work with those

Take-off trim buttons - to be fixed

Radios should work (both com 1 and com 2 - frequency are user selectable, radios are always on)

Transpoder should work (again, code user selectable, transponder always on)

Nav lights are ON/OFF only

Fuel gauge should work, but switch does not and dynamic texture is missing

No sound when travelling gear -> system bug (sound does not play as it should)

@ Unknown

COG too far on the front -> aircraft shuould be nose heavy

Razor said...

Red - Had a CTD on the first takeoff - Spawned on the runway at Aviano, spooled up the engines for about 5-10 minutes testing out a number of the systems, released the parking brake, took off, did an aileron roll, at about 350 degrees of the roll it CTD'd, I will test more later to see if I can repeat it.

Yellow - Rudder seems to be a bit touchy - a very small amount of rudder kicks the nose a fair bit.

Yellow - Throttle lever in cockpit does not match the input power - visual throttle hits the stops at about 60% power.

Yellow - With the engine off, the power comes on either with the BATT or GEN 1/2 (The GENs are also labeled as alternators), I assume it should only come on with the BATT if the engine is off. The power with the GENs appears to only partially work - the WARN LT TEST for example doesn't illuminate if only the GENs are on.

Yellow - Comm 2 radio frequency can't be changed after cold-and-dark start, but appears to work from a hotstart.

Additional comments - Unsure if this is correct or not, but the rudder pedal toes do not pivot when applying brakes.

I will continue testing for any new bugs.

loic said...

yellow: it seems that there is a dead zone in the throttle between 50 and 55% engine speed and the sound does not vary

loic said...

yellow: the lever is missing to exit and retract the spoiler under the aircraft. valid for both models as the comment above

ScimmiaSpaziale said...


I could not replicate the CTD (aside, FYI, there is almost no non-XML behavior code in the it would be strange if the CTD is caused by the 339 itself)

Rudder -> logged excessive effectiveness

Throttle -> was already logged as MB339VC001

Electrical -> will check, temporarily logged

COM2 -> will check

Toe brakes -> animation was not implemented, will try and add it

Thank you


ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@loic - will check the throttle, but as you see there is already an issue logged for throttle movement

@loic - speedbrake - issue is that the speedbrake control on the throttle is not moving? If so, that is intentional as we have not animated the speedbrake switch... but I will add it.

loic said...

it is not a problem of accelerator movement, it is an acceleration hole on the engine I think because the engine speed does not move in this range.

yes I can activate it with my x52 but not directly in the plane => the problem is that the speedbrake control on the accelerator does not move?

loic said...

yellow: it's possible to fly with the canopy open

Patricio Cepellotti said...

I find it extremely hard to fly with that effectiveness of the ailerons. I'm currently checking systems to see if it is my own joystick, but higher than 350kts, the ailerons are pretty sensitives.

Hornet1227 said...


other than already listed bug

Yellow :

- transparency visor HUD glitch (like blinking)

- altitude indicator, the 3 is already coming at 24'000ft ( normal? ) but it's confiusing

- ( I don't have the crash acivated ) but when I tried a dive, at 400kts certain part or the external model dissapear for 1 minutes then came back ( tail, engine gear doors and elevator ) so it might be the crash model?

- and yeah the ground effect is really sensitive, impossible to keep the plane straight after take off, i know it's already listed but i can't tell if it's the plane or microsoft fault but it might be listed as RED

-and for the rudder sensitivity, it's strange because for taxiing it's perfect, but once you go full power a little push and you are inverted on the ground ^^"



ThePilotX said...

First of all i have to say that i'm very happy with the aircraft itself for being a beta version it is really good, however i found some minor bugs apart for the ones that are already reported :).

-Yellow (both models): While making a short IFR flight to test the instruments i noticed that the CDI onto the HSI when it's perfectly aligned gets really blurry using far zoom out setting, however this seems to be related also to the ambient light, being higher on less light conditions, (i'm running the highest anti aliasing setting) i will send a picture via email for further details.

-Yellow (both models): When turning on the flood lights in low light conditions (dusk, morning, night) the light is visible from the exterior model on the nose section, i'll also send a picture of that.

Finally as reported before the aircraft is really unstable at low level altitudes being almost imposible to make a propper landing, and so sensitive during flight with the most realistic flight model settings.

Otherwhise the aircraft is beautiful and i really enjoyed flying it! can't wait to see how this is goning to improve i have high expectatives on this project.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@loic - you can fly with the canopy open? YES, meaning that in MSFS (and many other simulators) the canopy is just a graphical animation and does not affect the flight model or behavior. Not a 339 specific problem.


Gunsight blink - seems a 3D engine Z-priority issue - will check if it is possible to mitigate it

Altitude indicator digit "3" - I'll try and rework the animation so that it shows later

Part of 3D model disappearing - very strange issue. There is no crash model. Never seen it happen on my machine...

@ Patricio Ceppellotti

Like in real airplanes (unless FCS limited), ailerons become more effective with airspeed...however it may be a sensitivity setting problem, as the aircraft remains controllable at high speeds in our tests (T16000 flight stick and similar ones)

Once again thank you all for you feedback.

NOTE - We have tested Radios and navigation systems (VOR mode) and they seem to work as advertised, although one tester is having problems. Please check.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...


Both problems you have mentioned are due to MSFS graphic engine glitches (price to pay to have both beautiful graphics and good performance :-D )!

loic said...

for the canopy, it is not possible to do as cerenado and these msf planes the window and the doors can be opened but in flight it crashes the plane with the message "the plane has undergone too much stress"?

Anonymous said...

@loic - if you think it is a critical issue, I can look into it. But I do not understand its importance, as you have canopy locking device and in-cockpit warning, you need to intentionally unlock the cockpit and open it (two mouse clicking actions) with a warning...

loic said...

you can only add on the locking system if it is simpler for more realism, because buyers may criticize the fact of being able to fly open canopy

loic said...

red: excessive consumption starting 100% of fuel from the parking lot to the track, 93% remains while respecting the speed of more than the 3 hours of autonomy seems to me more than optimistic with the current setting we are more on 1h 1h30

Patricio Cepellotti said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale Well, that's the case of my joystick (t16000m HOTAS), I'm very aware of that airpseed efectivenes lol, but I've found it very 'strange' in the movements. Now I'm settin a new joystick configs to see how it reacts.
Awesome model, tho.

Patricio Cepellotti said...

It seems to be that is currently happening to all my airplanes so... Dismiss last transmision.

loic said...

yellow: the landing gear seems a little slow to come out, especially the front wheel

yellow: the landing gear only comes out below 150kt to check but the mb339 should be able to pull it out at a higher speed

loic said...

for excessive consumption I confirm flight departure gasoline 100%, landing 1% flight duration 52 minutes I flew at cruising speed at 280 we are far from 3 hours of autonomy

Patricio Cepellotti said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Patricio Cepellotti said...

Finally going through my issues.

-The Accelerometer, while in a loop, or high G maneuver seems to be a bit everywhere, the indicator just goes up and down not showing a correct indication.
-The autopilot doesn't work with the buttons on the pannel. (Didn't see this on the notes, dunno if it's already said)
-The elevator dinamics seems a bit buggy, when you pull a high G on the Y axis of the plane, the CG is kind of moved and reacts in a bad manner.

Unknown said...

Ground control seem to fast when using rudder and some speed , the anti ice dont work when used , also noticed some flickering on the visor under certain condition , aircraft seem to behave strangely after huge acceleration ( small twitch )

ThePilotX said...

Thanks for the last reply. After some more testing just wanted to add that the issues regarding the plane being too sensitive at low altitudes and uncontrolable seem to be related to the the legacy flight model if you switch to "modern" flight model, it flies pretty well!
As a BLUE item don't know if it's possible at this stage but i think would be really nice to have the gps nav panel functional so you can enter your route or at least a direct by using the aircraft itself and not the simulator flight planning :D
Can't wait for the alpha 2!

FlyingSinger said...

I just bought the MB-339 v1.0 add on for MSFS 2020 through Orbx and it’s awesome! I’ve only done some brief test flights but it seems to respond and fly well. Can’t comment on the flight model since I’ve never flown jets IRL and not even in sims for many years. But it seems realistic. Fun anyway!

Orbx has a download for the PDF manual but strangely enough, many of the pages in document (40-55) are blank. Corrupted file? Is there another download location?
Bruce Irving

VirtualDave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
VirtualDave said...

Is the issue known that when in external mode others with this jet their engines sound can't be heard

يحي سامي said...

شركة مكافحة حشرات بابها
شركة مكافحة حشرات بخميس مشيط
شركة تسليك مجاري بخميس مشيط
شركة تسليك مجاري بابها
شركة تنظيف فلل بخميس مشيط
شركة تنظيف مجالس بابها

يحي سامي said...

شركة تنظيف شقق بخميس مشيط
شركة تنظيف مجالس بخميس مشيط
شركة تنظيف منازل بخميس مشيط
شركة تنظيف خزانات بابها
شركة تنظيف خزانات بخميس مشيط
شركة تنظيف شقق بابها
شركة تنظيف منازل بابها
شركة تنظيف فلل بابها

شركة تنظيف بابها
شركة تنظيف بخميس مشيط

Car147 said...

Liveries for the MB 339 have gone since the latest update for MSFS2020 yesterday. Looks like they broke something as it' also includes freeware liveries for all other aircraft in the sim.

Severus said...

There seems to be an issue with the shading on the wing tip tanks of the A model. The lighting and shading are not displaying at the correct angle, but from cockpit view it is correct. In exterior view the tanks are shaded like they are off by 90'. This seemed to have happened after update 5 for MSFS, I didn't notice this effect before that.

Severus said...

Never mind Dino, I made a file handling mistake. I tracked down the mistake, everything is displaying correctly now. I'm kind of Dopey. Thanks for the awesome aircraft, this one and all the previous ones too.

Fritz said...

Hi, I bought the MB-339 v1.0 add on for MSFS 2020 from Orbx and i also a VR tester.
It's nearly impossible to make any control changes with the mouse in the vr-environmet.
Please check and correct this bug.
LG Fritz

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jrjuli said...

The plane is uncontrollable, there is no way to keep it stable.
It is not a lack of habit, I have been using simulators all my life.
the sensitivity of the controls is extreme in my case.
I use TCA Sidestick AIRBUS.
Thanks a lot.

Unknown said...

Wont show up in MSFS 2020 at all! did try to install again but didnt help. Have the zip version so no installer.....

Anonymous said...

I would definitely consider buying the MB-339, but only if it has autopilot.

So, please, does it have autopilot?

Thank you.

babolet said...

I just bought this beautiful plane. He is really wonderful and very pleasant. Well done to the designers. Along with the Long EZ, these are the two aircraft I fly the most on FS2020.
However, I noticed a flaw. The defrost switches do not work, and the keyboard shortcut "H" only activates the pitot defrost. So in flight in icing conditions we have the speedometer working, but the canopy remains totally iced.
Small question off topic. If one day you want to fly the most beautiful hunter in the world, consider the Hawker Hunter F.58!
Well done and good luck

R@sta said...

Unfortunately I'm having an error installing the MB339 update I purchased on ORBX. During the installation it tells me that it finds 5 damaged files and then stops.

يحي سامي said...

شركة مكافحة حشرات بالرياض

شركة مكافحة حشرات بالباحة

شركة تنظيف خزانات ببيشة

شركة تنظيف خزانات بالباحة

شركة تنظيف ببيشة

شركة تنظيف بالباحة

Unknown said...

I'm unable to tune the TACAN to any channel starting with 6. You can select channel 59 and then the next available channel is 70.

Unknown said...

My Honeycomb Alpha Yoke, when I turned on landing lights the plane started to make a clicking sound, like a switch was being turned on and off constantly. Couldnt see which switch was doing this. (Could it be a conflict between taxi being in OFF position and Landing being in ON, when its a toggle switch in this plane for both? - very annoying if it is, as cant use either then)

Could not select and operate the following with the mouse; Landing Gear, & Throttle. 

If you open the canopy there doesnt seem to be any impact on aerodynamics; no speed loss / controll loss. Not a biggie. :-)

somethingbrite said...

Can't seem to retard the throttle into the Throttle stop position. Is there a keybind to activate that?

Airspeed appears lower than it should be for both models.

Jeremy said...

339PAN : Smoke button functional but no smoking . Add please

Gary S said...

Gary S.
As above comment only issues for me are -
1. cockpit ices over. Cockpit demist not working.
2. Can't get throttle to stop position.
Beautiful otherwise.

Unknown said...

Hi is it posible to get the lyveris as photoshop data with different levels in it?

Anonymous said...

The throttle likes to twitch into the stopped position every 5 seconds which makes it sort of annoying when trying to take off or land because it keeps having to spool up again.

simfront said...

Simulations make creative use of calculational techniques that can only be motivated extra-mathematically and extra-theoretically.

Monty said...

I'm having the sound effects in one ear cut out intermittently when i turn my head using the HP Reverb G2 and flying the MB-339 in MSFS 2020. I can certainly say engine sounds cut out, not sure about others. Please note that this is the ONLY model I have this problem with so it is not a hardware issue. I have tried turning the Windows Spatial Sound on and off and it still cuts out on one ear using this aircraft. All my other aircraft sound fine.

Conte17 said...

Landing light illuminates the left pedal inside the cockpit when active. With the lights on, switching to external view they are off, needs keybind to turn on angain

Giovanni said...

I've bought the mb339 for MSFS 2020.
No way to download the latest update from MS 2020 content manager. It just says "failed" after completing the download
Do you know any available workaround?

babolet said...

Do not buy anything on the marketplace. It takes a bit of gymnastics to find the updates, but at least from other vendors, the updates are available right away when they are released, they are complete and there are never any bugs.