Saturday, June 5, 2021

SU-31 For Microsoft Flight Simulator Beta Test

 


BETA TEST ACCESS INSTRUCTIONS

In general, Beta test is open to testers of all different skill levels and expertise - however, due to the nature of this particular aircraft, we are particularly interested in feedback coming from experts or pilots of the SU-26/29/31 family.

In order to apply for the Beta Test, please drop an email to indiafoxtecho@gmail.com with the following information:

- System specification (no need of details or long explainations: just specify your CPU, Clock speed, RAM, GPU and dedicated video RAM)

- Real world flight experience (if any) - please keep it short!

- Simulation experience - please keep it short!

- Any special tie to the SU-31 or similar aircrafts or any reason why you really want to test this plane

Important! Subject of the email must be "SU-31 MSFS Beta Test Application".

Please do not apply unless you have 2-3 hours to dedicate to test this aircraft!

Testing this aircraft is NOT a paid position in any way...if you do it, you do it only for the fun of it!

...and, due to the large number of applications we typically receive, we cannot grant a reply to everybody. If you do not receive a reply in a week or so, please assume you have not been admitted to the Beta - apologies in advance! 


DESIGN INTENT:

This is a medium-low complexity add-on which is meant to depict the Sukhoi Su-31 aerobatic plane in an accessible way. The key points of the package are as follows:

- An accessible flight model on par or better than the default aerobatic models

- Highly detailed external and internal model

- Flight model and systems simulation is based on default MSFS functionalities (no external code). Within the limits of MSFS, we'd like to try and replicate the peculiar features of this aircraft and differentiate it from the stock planes.

- Simple sound package 

The intended usage is free flight and basic aerobatics.

BETA VERSION INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS:

Add-ons for Microsoft Flight Simulator are distributed as packages. Packages shall be placed in the "Community" folder. You will need to restart MSFS if the simulator was running when you have moved the files.

HOW TO REPORT BUGS:

The preferred way to report bugs is to add a comment to this post, specifying what is the experienced malfunction and when it happens. Pics are welcome.

PLEASE do not rush in reporting bugs - it is not a race - take your time and verify if it is a real problem and, if you think it is, try to understand when it happens exactly.

Alternatively, an email is good too. Comments are preferred so that other users can see them.

It is not a race, so take your time. The simulation is quite complex, so it may take some time to get acquainted with the plane… I'd suggest you log at least a couple of hours before submitting any feedback.

Also, PLEASE, before posting a bug make sure it is not already in the list below.


COLOR KEY:

Red - Higher priority: a severe bug that may hamper the usage of the aircraft

Yellow - Lower priority: definitely a defect, but not a high priority to solve it

Green - Problem solved, o mitigated to the level that it is acceptable.Dark Green - Problem solved or mitigated before the Beta 1 release.

Blue - Comment, nice-to-have features or suggestions


CHANGE REQUEST LOG AND TO-DO LIST

Current tester version NOT AVAILABLE

Current internal build ALPHA BUILD


Current metrics:

Red items: 1

Yellow items: 17

Green items: 40

Blue items: 0  

TOTAL CRs: 58

Progress toward release 66% :-(

Last changed by Dino on 07/07/2021


EXTERNAL MODEL:

SU31EXT001 - Blurred prop texture do not match the prop color
SU31EXT002 - Misplaced Handle in 3D model - FIXED 07/06

SU31EXT003 - External model details cleanup needed - DONE 23/06
SU31EXT004 - Texture seams mismatch in multiple areas
SU31EXT005 - Missing tailwheeò steer animation - FIXED 07/07 BETA 2
SU31EXT006 - Engine gills not painted
SU31EXT007 - Tail actuation wire not animated - FIXED 07/07 BETA 2
SU31EXT008 - Various openings in the engine section - FIXED 08/07 BETA 2
SU31EXT009 - Fuselage normal map considered excessive - REDUCED NORMAL MAP EFFECTS BY 80% - BETA 2


VIRTUAL COCKPIT:

SU31VC001 - Missing LIGHT TEST caption - FIXED 24/06
SU31VC002 - Warning lights not working - FIXED 26/06
SU31VC003 - Drag mouse areas not implemented - FIXED 25/06
SU31VC004 - 3-point engine instruments missing colored bands - FIXED 07/06
SU31VC005 - 3-point engine instruments reading to be calibrated 
- FIXED 07/06
SU31VC006 - Starter not animated and inop - FIXED 05/07
SU31VC007 - Fuel shutoff not animated and inop - FIXED 24/06
SU31VC008 - Magnetos and keys not animated and inop, also incorrect key caption and AO.
SU31VC009 - Cylinder Temperature dial not working - FIXED 24/06
SU31VC010 - Chronograph not working - FIXED 25/06
SU31VC011 - Flight Time clock not working - FIXED 25/06
SU31VC012 - Wing Tank dial not working 
- FIXED 07/06
SU31VC013 - AMP/Voltmeter geometry incorrect, and instument not working - FIXED 07/06
SU31VC014 - Tachometer should indicate prop RPM instead of engine PRM - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC015 - Replace Glass material in VC - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC016 - Check rain effect in VC - CHECKED OK 26/06

SU31VC017 - Gmeter reset function missing - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC018 - Pitot Switch not working - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC019 - Tailwheel Lock INOP - FIXED 26/06

SU31VC020 - Trim lever not working anymore? - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC021 - Add canopy icing effect
SU31VC022 - Increase readability of altimeter and fuel quantity needles - FIXED 25/06

SU31VC023 - Cap spinner holes - FIXED 26/06 
SU31VC024 - Fix normal map of some dials
SU31VC025 - Missing Environment Occluder model - ADDED 26/06
SU31VC026 - Missing VR Collision Mesh - ADDED 26/06
SU31VC027 - Fuel Selector L/R Mouse Area not working  - FIXED 25/07

SU31VC028 - Altimeter "thousand" needle missing - FIXED 06/07 (Beta 2)
SU31VC029 - Kohlsmann limited to 29.73 inHg - NOT CONFIRMED, WRITTEN OFF 06/07 - ADDED AGAIN, PROBLEM IS NOT THE KOHLSMAN SETTING BUT RATHER THE ALTIMETER NEEDLE.
SU31VC030 - Engine Primer lever not labelled and not working - FIXED 07/07 (Beta 2)
SU31VC031 - Request to have easier radio tuning
SU31VC032 - Throttle and Pitch lever are reversed - FIXED 07/07 (Beta 2)
SU31VC033 - Voltmeter needle not working
SU31VC034 - Tailwheel help text missing - FIXED 07/07 (Beta 2)
SU31VC035 - Screws on top of VC misplaced if user moves out of the cockpit.

FLIGHT MODEL:

SU31FM001 - Maximum speed not matched - FIXED 25/07
SU31FM002 - Contact points to be revised - FIXED 25/06
SU31FM003 - Parking brake implemented but no control in the cockpit - NOTE: the real aircraft does not have a parking brake. The function is enabled in the Beta as it is intended to emulate the wheelchocks, which, in turn, are not present in the Beta model.
SU31FM004 - COG out of limits (need to rework data)
SU31FM005 - Ground steering too sensitive? Seems OK for other users...TBC
SU31FM006 - Control surface  - FIXED 07/07 BETA 2
SU31FM007 - Incorrect load limits 
 - FIXED 07/07 BETA 2

SU31FM008 - Incorrect fuel tank configuration and quantity - FIXED quantity, configuration left to L / R to match with selector. BETA 2


OTHER:

SU31OT001 - Check List is missing - added basic checklist - FIXED 24/06
SU31OT002 - Flight Manual is missing
SU31OT003 - Sound package is missing
SU31OT004 - Missing Previews - All previews created - FIXED 07/06
SU31OT005 - Build marketplace data
SU31OT006 - Need to replace view GUIDs to avoid potential issues
SU31OT007 - "HUD" color range mismatch
SU31OT008 - Request to fix aircraft tail numbers - FIXED 07/07 BETA 2

52 comments:

loic said...

yellow: - radio tuning is very difficult
- the ground steering is too sensitive
- dropout at almost every loopback attempt

red: -the center of gravity is always out of limit

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Loic

- radio tuning -> will try to switch to
- ground steering -> you mean while taxiing or during TO? The tailwheel lock should be working.
- will check the looping

As for the COG, this is just an error on the COG data.

Mike303 said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale

Maybe it's an idea to set up a private discord SU-31 testing channel on your IFT discord so we can discuss between testers and coordinate some multiplayer testing too.

loic said...


during taxiing

Chris Brisland said...

Two hours flight and around 2 more looking at the file structure and static on ground.

I can duplicate most of the open faults on blogspot, but I think the taxying is excellent! Could this be my rig? There is some skidding if I am taxying a bit on the fast side, and the tail lifts rather easily (got to remember, this is a taildragger, so hold stick back.

Take off is equally straight. Much good to like here, but I do have some more definite comments that are causing concern. I will post a consolidated list tomorrow after another flight or two.

Regards,

Chris

YoYo said...

Sometime I started (after Ready to fly) from parking (so in cold and dark, not from runway)on the nose:

https://i.imgur.com/o6S8dVm.jpg

YoYo said...

No tool tip here (I think its tail wheel lock / unlock) https://i.imgur.com/PUjSsqH.jpg

YoYo said...

Dino, I do test in VR, generally looks ok - however is it possible to increase the scale of Virtual cockpit, something about 20%? I know nothing about creating 3D models for MSFS, but for example in MCX for FSX/P3D is an option to increase the scale of model or VC. It looks in VR a little too small, rudder pedals like for hands, not for foods and they are on my (real) cheast (models in P3D and DCS looks a lot of better with his scale than here). 20% more will be ok for test. Is it possible?

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@All

Thanks for the feedback.

As for the taxing, upon further testing it seems OK to me. Remember to use the tailwheel lock.

As for the scaling, this seems to be an MSFS issue. Note that it is (of course) definitely possible to increase the model dimension by any arbitrary scale, but I believe it is the MSFS scaling in VR that is a little off. I think there is an open CR in Microsoft for that.
I will keep the model with the correct 1:1 scale - hoping that an option is added later on to MSFS.

YoYo said...

Btw. Main tires are too much glossy, Small issue but reflection more than normal are noticable.

YoYo said...

Flight model - is it finished? Some aerobatic figures are not possible which are very characteristic of the Su-31 (like scissors) but maybe its MSFS issue still and not full FM model?

YoYo said...

VC. Height indicator - only longer needle is present (for tens, hundreds m/ft). I cant find the same cockpit of Su-31 in the net, only Russian or western style but with 2 needles, for km and m.

Mike303 said...

-Sometimes the plane noses over in pre flight animation (like a lot of other planes do)

Empty weight: should be 1477 Lbs (670Kgs) instead of 1543 Lbs (700Kgs) lbs (according to EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5 and research on crash reports and other sources)

-Fuselage tank missing: for aerobatics wing tanks usually not used (according to EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5)
The handle is there but not setup in the flightmodel properly

Fuselage tank 74 litres
Two wing tanks of 105 litres each
Fuselage collector tank 3 litres
(In the case of the wing tanks and main fuselage tank, useable fuel
can be up to two litres less than the above).

-Load factor limitations: +12g / -10g (currently set at 10 / -10) (according to EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5)
Aerobatic Limitations Aerobatic manoeuvres are permitted.
Intentional spinning is permitted
Load factor limitations: +12g / -10g

-Control Surfaces angles not right in the flightmodel.
Correct Control surface values: (according to EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5)
Aileron +/- 28 degrees
Elevator +/- 25 degrees
Rudder +/- 32 degrees
Elevator trim tab +/- 20

-Stall speed is set at 64 knots should be 57 knots(according to EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5)

-Maybe the fuselage_lateral_cx can be set a bit higher for a bit longer knife edge manouveres (experienced SU-31 pilots correct me if i'm wrong on this assumption)

-Some texture problems (on all liveries)
There are quite a few texture seams that are not matching up or seems to be stretching a bit (I can provide more pictures of these when needed)
https://postimg.cc/gallery/PhVfD8k

EASA SAS A 094 Su-31 iss 5:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA%20SAS%20A%20094%20Su-31%20iss%205.pdf

Will commence with more testing on FDE.

Regards,
Mike303

YoYo said...

FM. Rudder during landing and take off is oversteer (just a little move of rudder pedals, even with tail wheel on) - too much turn and not keeping straight ahead. In P3D and DCS rudder works better, maybe its MSFS issue how rudder works (I saw something like this once). Is it possible to improve this? No issue for taxi and during flight but during take off and landing rudder starts to work suddenly with too much "power".

Chris Brisland said...

No big show stoppers after 4+ hours in sim, but plenty of pickups to report.

Dino: Can you answer these first - which variant(s) are you modelling? Can you add smoke yet? I want to look at the textures before making consolidated report. Later today - my dogs need a walk now ;)

Chris

Chris Brisland said...

@mike303 - I can duplicate all your comments. 100% in agreement. I even went through the EASA data too - but Dino must tell us which engine/airframe variant.

Mike303 said...

@YoYo
I don't see those problems with this (big) rudder (there is a problem with the wheel contact modelling in MSFS Asobo is working on that)

Habion said...

Red: during flight if I select control menu to adjust the axis, engine shut down.

Habion said...

Red: flight model and rudder make the plane uncontrolable in some situations.
Yellow: tailwheel animation missing when you are moving on ground.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@All, thanks for your comments.

It seems very clear to me that the current quality level is NOT ACCEPTABLE for release, and much lower than quality goals. Apologies for this - I will try to improve the product.

The reference flight manual and model was the SU-31X (with some modifications to the cockpit structure).

As for the data in the flight_model.cfg - some values have been altered on purpose to correct for exaggerated effects in the in-game behavior...others are just leftovers from the stock-Extra 330 which I used as template.

As for the smoke... yes it is possible to add it in the game, but I don't like too much the way it looks. Waiting for the next FX update.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Habion

...departure from controlled flight is indeed a possibility.

As for the control selection causing the engine shutdown, this is typically due to conflicting controls / interface settings.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Mike303

My apologies but I am not sure I understand the comment on the wing tanks missing. The way the flight model is configured is to have the "left tank" as the fuselage tank and right one "wing tank" - lever switches from one to the other, so it should be transparent for the pilot (...and yes, the flight model.cfg would be formally incorrect - but with no effect on the sim).

Chris Brisland said...

OK, let's see my list of comments.

Su-31X - export model of Su-31T which was the production variant.

Flight prep in msfs.

CofG error.

Walkaround:

1. Prop, spinner, wing leading edges look like I have been flying in a Beaver (which is often low and ignoring trees) i.e. the bump map/norm is very dented and yet still shiny. Any self respecting pilot will insist on smooth and clean.

2. Is that pilot face Svetlana Kapanina? Clever!

03. The whole airframe and wings on one sheet. Good. Perhaps use 8192 size then for the detail. But it would be preferable to use two sheets at 8192^2 great graphics possible.

04. Option - extra centreline tank (for ferry flights?) see

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Sukhoi-Su-31/5681903?qsp=eJx1jbEOgzAMRP/Fc5YCBSlbWTq2Q3/Actw2EoXI9gBC/HtDkLp1O713uluBptF4tseSGDwoo9AbHCQU/Cj4FTAKCT6tR4101E7Vua3dz1x5ZPnjwDddU3UOdBLrl3wR0PhCxMk4wMFvElh2xUrl%2B7UP5cByLxnqNvMQNQ1YNtgwDrBtX0xXPwQ%3D

5. Starting the first flight results in aircraft rolling backwards after clicking "Ready To Fly". But if you left the SU selected on exiting msfs, then a sim restart appears neutral.

06. Radiator outlet grilles (the gills) - not painted. I will check against my FSX liveries, I believe there were inconsistencies. I am not reviewing the textures this post yet.

07. Aircraft ID on yellow IJECT - if this is Italian, then I-JECT

08. Ditto IMAGE and PTZSZ (07 and 08 - same for cockpit interior

09. The "FILE NAMES TOO LONG" error is a Windows issue and easily fixed - google "Win 10 long file name" for fix. Basically Win 10 has a 256 character limit unless you change the registry

Enter Cockpit and Start

10. Eyepoint (for me) is right of centre in cockpit on my rig. I needed to tap left arrow twice to get a central viewpoint. (OK in VR mode)

11. Cockpit canopy open - no animation?

12. The radio on/off switch is not an Avionics master switch. Change mouseover.

13. Starting the engine was OK thanks to experience, but seeing the rotory Off/Lmag/Rmag/Start is confusing as these do not work.

14. No Nav Lights/Beacon/strobes? OK, I guess the Su is display flying VFR only? So how do you fly ferry flights in public airspace without external lights?

15. Mag drops seem too low - only 20 rpm per mag. Is this correct? Manual needed to let pilots know correct power setting for ground test.

16. bearing in mind VFR only comments above - whilst static on ground any rain flows forwards despite no wind selected. Should roll down and run off according to body shape.

17. Tailwheel lock - I have a button on my throttle quadrant allocated - that is how I found the cockpit lever. But there is no animation of tailwheel in external view.

Flight.

BASIS:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA%20SAS%20A%20094%20Su-31%20iss%203.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-31

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/sukhoi.htm

18. Takeoff run seems rather longer than the info found on web - 363 feet (around 110 metres)

19. Max airspeed S&L is 322 Km / 174 Kts (14" Hg / 100% prop in the sim model) The max cruise in the references above show this. But this is also absolute limits in the sim and it will not go faster.

20. Km/H to Kts conversions is on the numbers but in external view the yellow band starts at 160 Kts Internal - 380 Km/H so airspeed is yellow in external and green in internal views.

21. Approach and landing is best in VR. In desktop mode it is not easy to move headpoint enough to get an ahead view round that huge engine ;) POH needed for speed info so that approache and landing can be on the numbers

22. TW lock on for landing, off for Taxy. Taxy is easy. I have no difficulties at all.

23. Engine Shutdown is too instantaneous for my liking. There es not even a gouple of blades run-on. Just running or stationary.

End of part one.


ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Chris - thanks for your comments, and again my apologies for the poor quality of the build

1 - This was mostly done to add some details on external views as the plane is often viewed from a certain distance

2 - Note exactly, but I wanted a look-alike female figure

3 - Preferred to go for 4192 texture sheet for memory consumption reasons

4 - Not planned

5 - Not sure what the sim does during these phases

6 - Indeed they are typically painted (not chrome)

7 - Being Italian I know that, but preferred to stick to the Asobo convention

8 - See above

9 - No error on my side

10 - See SU31OT007

11 - No animation implemented yet

12 - I know, but this is intentional to provide an Avionics Master control (for a number of gameplay reasons)

13 - See SU31VC008

14 - The SU-31 has no external lights

15 - SU-31X manual indicates a 3% max drop

16 - Correct, but effect is managed by the sim

17 - Tailwheel animation is indeed missing from Beta 1

18 - Will check

19 - Will check

20 - Will check

21 - Will add more views

22 - Noted

23 - Noted

Chris Brisland said...

My comments WRT flight, specifically aerobatic manoevers.

As a basis for my aerobatic attempts I did a Google search for "sukhoi su 31 aerobatics" and watched Jurgis Kairys and others. Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheC5dvvgx4

...and note things like tailwheel lift, take off run, numbers of consecutive rolls, tightness of loops etc.

None of the above can be faithfully replicated as such. For instance 20 flick rolls downwards in sim needs well in excess of 7500 feet and even then recovery is very risky.

TO THE SIM AEROBATICS

Airspeed decays very rapidly during aeros. In vertical climb it is hard to get more than a couple of aileron rolls in the vertical without the stall horn going wild and the plane going critically unstable. Flick roll inputs are very zig zaggy.

It is difficult to keep power up during aerobatics, but when the throttle is pulled for landing, the speed doesn't really decay as fast as I'd expect. I have enjoyed a few touch and gos, but I would need to know ideal speeds as per POH.

In steady altitude flying I find the SU adequately agile and flying low in valleys, round trees and buildings is possible and enjoyable, so things like Reno Air Race are enjoyable. Trying the Red Bull type of flying is more difficult due to very fast loss of airspeed and control authority.

Manouevers flown:

1. Loop - stall horn at 150 KMH
2. Cuban 8 - loses control authority on the diagonals when rolling to right side up
3. Lomcovak - no. it doesn't. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomcovak
4. 8 point roll straight ahead - yes
5. 8 point roll 360 turn - yes, but I am untidy
6. Vertical roll up - sort of. Airspeed decay and loss of control authority seems too fast.
7. Vertical roll down - no probs but watch altitude - the pullout is rather underwear soiling. Even from 5000 feet+ (i.e. needs sharpening up perhaps)
8. Knife edge good if you keep "inside the box" after that it tends to lose altitude rather fast
9. Inverted. Great!
10. Aileron roll - excellent
11. Barrel roll - meh. Like flying a marshmallow. Ends lower than start (should be slightly above line of flight)
12. Flick (snap) roll. The tail wags too much. More directional stability needed.
13. Steep turn. even a 60 degree angle feels too tight. This Su should be able to hold a knife edge turn without losing much speed or height

All flying so far in both VR and on monitors. Smooth FPS! Using "Ultra" for the monitors and "high" for the Oculus quest.

Most of these manouevers probably mean I have forgotten too much "muscle memory", but I do think the reactions aren't quite as good as the default extra.

IRL I have flown glider aerobatics, so no real comparison. But when I did fly things like clearing turns, cuban 8, loops, rolls, chandelles. gliders like Pilatus and Pirat were on the rails.

One of the best sim aircraft I had for aerobatics was the IRIS Christen Eagle with modded engine power.

End of part two

Chris Brisland said...

My comments part three.

Just a summary.

I like it! Just because I have so many critiques does not mean I think the SU is bad, I fully realise this is a beta and you are specifically asking us testers to try to break the beast.

I had some great fun with the EAW SU26 in FSX and it was possible my second most often painted model after the Christen Eagle. I think I did around 15-20 liveries on that one and it was fun to fly too. Very tight.

This model has the potential to better the FSX offering by a mile. Pity I can't load images direct from my PC - none of the online storage sites are safe enough for Beta Test privacy rules.

I do understand that you specify that this is meant to be as per your "DESIGN INTENT:" on the blog front page. So "as is" I reckon you will have it nailed for a release fairly soon. But if you can find a flight model developer like Pam Brooker and if you can add the animations, then $10 to $15 on top of your sell price would not be a bad thing. I'd happily pay up to $40 (US) or so.

Now... I must go examine the textures...

You have my thumbs up Dino.

Mike303 said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale

I meant there are no wing tanks in the wings (both are in the center of the fuselage in the flight_model.cfg) and the actual fuselage tank (72L) is actually missing.
Would be nice if it's modelled right but of course not mandatory.(The stock E330 also has this incorrectly modelled with 3 tanks all in the center of the fuselage.)

No need to apologize that's why we test and comment. :)

@Chris Brisland agreeing with everything you said about the flightmodel for aerobatics and in your summary.

Chris Brisland said...

I have an issue as a repainter...

The best way to create a texture is to import the gltf file into Blender. This works for the LongEZ and the MB339.

I get an error message when I try to open the SU31_LOD00.gltf file

Something about "could not handle mesh pilot/body"

Your thoughts?

Mike303 said...

It would be great if someone could convince Asobo to remove the limit on roll acceleration (values get clamped) this would open up the way for much better and realistic aerobatic flightmodels.
The roll rates are ok (for this plane) but the time it takes to get to that 400° sec roll rate is not right.

I tried several times on zendesk but they got tired of me trying to prove something is wrong there. :P

Chris Brisland said...

@Mike303 - agreed.

On the other hand, I have been trrying so often, that I can usually get a full stick roll and stop instantly. It took a LOT of practice. Also, I never really time the rolls, I just go "Stick One thous- Checkstick". I could imagine some improvement in the SU will happen with time. And as I have commented already, the rolls are very nicely manageable.

I have the Extra pretty much under control nowbut it is still not really up to aerobatics in the strictest sense that I could follow an Aresti chart. Nothing in flight sims so far has been that good. Well, the closest has been the Eagle with smoke linked to the joystick pinkie.

Zendesk? Hah! They're still going "Ommmm" and trying to find their Chi. The most common reply I get there is "Remove your community folder"

Chris Brisland said...

Just a quick comment before I forget.

My item 6 above: 06. Radiator outlet grilles (the gills) - not painted. I will check against my FSX liveries, I believe there were inconsistencies. I am not reviewing the textures this post yet.

I did not mean the IRIS (camera lens shutter type iris, not the software plane makers) TYPE rotating air intakes. I meant the gills on the sides...

...as in "a fishes gills" that are behind the fishes mouth. Water goes in through mouth and out through gills.

these are painted in livery base colour at the moment, but if you look through airliners.net or any other aircraft photo library, these are most often paintedd with the artwork design.

Now, I have to go fly some more.

"Blue side up!"

Chris Brisland said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale

Is there a different beta version out? Reading the info on your blogspot front page there are references to Beta 2

Chris Brisland said...

Great flights to have fun with:

From Trier, along trhe Moselle valley to the Rhine.
Bella Coola and follow valleys around.
Mach loop, North Wales.
Reno air race circuit.

My favourite so far - London along the Thames and flying under as many bridges as you can. (You do need the OrbX London though because I think the msfs default bridges are mostly solid.)

In that respect, the Su 31 is very good because most of the flying is within the normal light aircraft flight envelope.

Tip. Got Wikipedia and read up on "Aresti Catalog". At the bottom of that page there is a link to "External Links" - follow to a good read about Aresti. Or you can buy the official Aresti Catalogue. (It is, after all, copyright protected)

Also in Wikipedia read up on Lomcovak - great description.

YoYo said...

Ok, so we are waiting for the next beta? :)

Mike303 said...

Some more observations after much more testing hours.

-Overall power output of the engine is less then the Asobo Extra 330 (compared in SDK engine debug)
This could account for the not so good vertical penetration.

-In cockpit view upper (spacebar) your view(head) goes through the canopy when doing flight/aerobatic manoeuvres (with default cockpit camera settings)

Chris Brisland said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale

According to the roadmap many fixes have been made in Beta version 2, but as yet no updated file. Are there problems one of us can help with? Or is it still a work in progress?

Over the weekend I have been comparing the characteristics against the msfs aerobatic aircraft and tracking performance comments on the msfs forum as well as trying to recreate aerobatic moves against you tube clips. Not just with the SU, but the Extra, the CAP 10, the Robin etc. Basically all msfs aircraft have the same behaviour fails when flying out of envelope - generally all quick moves, flicks, tumbles and rolls are difficult in sim. I guess this could be down to the flight dynamics programmers.

One name does stick in my mind as being pretty great is Pam Brooker who did some very incredibly good flight dynamics in FSX. If you want, I think I have contact with Pam - I could ask if willing to assist, although maybe as a Vietnam veteran Pam is well past retirement.

Mike303 said...

@Chris Brisland

Pam still does incredible flightmodel work for MSFS (Wing42,Simworks Studio's,Big Radials etc.)
But she probably can't solve the problem of the hardcoded roll acceleration values.
Only way to get around it for now is use something like cheat engine to manipulate those values directly in memory when the sim is running. See https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/extra-330-lt-pitts-still-bad-roll-responsibility/273596/40 (the values mentioned in that post have changed memory location after a sim update but the hack still works)

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@All

Apologies for the lack of updates - MSFS is undergoing several major changes with Sim Update V and while we believe all the changes are for the better, they are creating some compatibility problems to all of our aircraft - requiring some unplanned extra work.

Chris Brisland said...

Ahhh, that figures. Yes, msfs is a right pain and they are pushing the XBox gaming mode ahead.

Good luck, I am sure you need it. I always dread the sim updates as they quite often force us users to rebuild our setups.

I think I shall try the SU in legacy mode - maybe aerobatics need the old fashioned approach. See you all again in a week or two. Or three if I have a lot of rebuilding to do.

Chris Brisland said...

Your message is received and I must agree that I am probably too vocal in the sense of "Pro Aerobatics". I understand the worries about the next sim update. I am indeed looking forward, once again - like a trip to the dentist for a root filling, to having to rebuild my setup.

So if your plans are "only" to produce a flyable aircraft that works in msfs, then OK, that is what the user will get, so when you send the SU to market don't forget to tell the buyer. Oh, and do be prepared for a lot of requests - I say that from experience because there are a lot of "yahoo pilots" out there who will buy in the hope that they are getting an airshow plane. I know

As it is, the SU DOES fly very usably through valleys, around the cities and under bridges, so there is certainly some excitement to be had. It does do loops, barrel rolls, aileron rolls and knife edges. (Just not as many on the go as pilots like Jurgis Kairys and Svetlana Kapenina do).

I don't know if you have edited the textures yet, but there is still a "must have" fix wrt the gills. Remember - the air outlets at the back of the cowls! These do need to be paintable with the paintkit.

Thanks for having me on the beta, I did enjoy it. Sorry about the negativity, my bad.

ngreenaway said...

i finally got to test this one out today. a few quick notes since everything else seems to be covered:
this thing can be a real challenge to take off..i think i properly stayed off the ground only 2 out of 5-6 attempts. it could be this aircraft is really unforgiving in real life. that would make sense. in that case, gaining real proficiency would be much more of an accomplishment than with some other aircraft

In VR, the pilots head position is placed at an unfortunate location. the canopy passes thru the VR pilots head, so that as you look around , your ears pass in & out of the airplane...constantly switching back and forth between interior and exterior noises...often different sounds in each ear

second, at least for VR, the smudging and scratching on the canopy seems to be slightly overdone. the sound problem is a big one, the smudges are a fairly minor consideration

otherwise, this looks like it will shape up to be a nice airplane

from the limited time ive had this afternoon to try it out, i couldnt see if there was an option for smoke effects- are there, or will there be smoke effects added?

Chris Brisland said...

@ngreenaway

Don't forget, the SU is a tail dragger and has a working tailwheel lock in the model (Animated lever down to the right hand side of the seet pan or program a joystick key. Off for taxy, lock on once you have lined up for take off. While taxying keep back pressure on the stick - as with most high powered tail draggers, the SU will lift her butt and is difficult to steer on the front wheels only. Once set for take off keep stick back until full throttle, release brakes and go. Ease up on the tail - at speed and with the tail fin acting as a weather vane she does take off very nicely straight ahead. Not really as fast as the real thing, but is still off the ground pretty fast.

As for the VR experience - how is your VR headset set up? do you have "standing" position set in gaming mode? Try setting "Seated" mode. Also adjust head position using the up/down/left/right arrow keys. Again - taildragger! You cannot see the ground ahead over that huge nose. In non-VR use the up arrow to get a higher seating position and left or right to see ahead. In VR - if you have an adjustable office chair - raise your position and move your head to change viewpoint left and right.

I fly in Oculus quest 2 VR. I have it set up for 178 cm body height and seated. Once airborne the first time you should get used to each taildragger aircraft as a separate plane - set your eyepoint in straight and level flight so that you are looking parallel to the forward fuselage. You should now be able to enjoy staying inside the cockpit all the time without "popping" out. Oh, and look at real world photos - you do not have much space for your head. If you do move out of the cockpit, then IRL you'd have bruises... ;)

ngreenaway said...

the tailwheel lock helped immensely, i couldnt find that before

im gonna disagree with you completely on the VR head position issue. im using a reverb g1,2. when the default position is correct in every dcs aircraft, every il2 aircraft, and 50 of the 52 msfs aircraft i have, the two aircraft that exhibit problems consist of 1 just released and 1 in beta....im gonna say the problem is in the aircrafts config, not the headset's config. im not going to monkey with settings to satisfy the two outliers. when the aircraft releases and people run into the same issue, theyre going to report it as a bug. the only other aircraft with this issue for me is the carenado c170b, where the vr head position puts you in the back seat

ngreenaway said...

also, i noticed in VR looking up close to a few of the gauges, they appear embossed with a different gauge face, with markings not quite matching up with the labels

Chris Brisland said...

I can understand where you're coming from in your VR woes. I don't have the C170 so I can't comment. The thing is, I have personally never had issues with the head position in any cockpit that I couldn't fix very easily. I use Oculus (I started with the Rift and now have the Quest 2)

Please don't get me wrong with my long reply, I am trying to help because I am fortunate enough not to have those issues and really do want to find out how to resolve yours

Often the model developer gets centre point slightly off (Dino has explained that issue above - that is an msfs thing). So when I start a flight my eyepoint might be right of centre (as it is with this SU for instance) I can only call this a minor grumble because as with any real aircraft, the previous person to have flown it might have left the seats "as is" when he got out. So adjusting seat position is more or less a standard procedure when getting in to an aircraft - remember one of the first lessons your driving instructor gives? Get in, adjust seat and mirrors...

Another thing developers often get wrong is the interior model scale so that the various structure elements of the cockpit look really wrong. But again - by adjusting your seating position in all three planes (VR, real world desk seating, msfs adjustment) you can almost always set yourself up right as long as you remember that the x axis is not always parallel to the ground and in taildraggers you will almost always not be able to see the outside world straight ahead. The SU does indeed have a long and fat nose.

Just don't forget that sitting at your desk, you are sitting more or less upright. If you have ever sat in a real world taildragger likt the SU (I haven't - but yes to Beaver, Chipmunk, Tiger Moth and a couple of others) then you will know that your seating position is more... "laid back" until you are airborne and in any closed cockpit you will bang your head on the canopy a lot as you try to look around the nose. That is also why some taildraggers have seat height adjusters so that you can crank yourself up for taxi and then readjust once airborne.

Don't forget, too, that model devs have to take a "one size fits all" approach, although so many simmers have different butt to eyeball heights. Children will have a different viewpoint to average adults. Basketball players are sometimes just too tall for some aircraft.

So although you have a justified issue with your viewpoint I do suggest you try to remember your driving instructor's advice.

Oh, and a quick question about the C170 and starting "in the back seat" doesn't the spacebar reset your eyepoint for you? Oh... Carenado... could that be a portover FSX model?

It is a difficult life we live, no?


Chris Brisland said...

Is anyone else having fun (not) with 1.18.13.0?

This update has been the last straw - I have deleted everyting msfs program software including appdata and all those other files associated.

It seems that the words "quality management" don't mean much to msfs/asobo. Send out a terrible software update, see what the community says and release a hotfix. Then pat yourself on the back and applaud yourself loudly for doing such a great job.

Is Trump running msfs?

I have had 30+ CTDs and hangups/lockups in the past 48 hours. When I have managed to get airborne, the terrain graphics have been reduced in quality. There are loads of new "funnies" in settings. It does seem that they might have improved the fligh dynamics though, so any fellow beta tester should look at the performance for improvement. I think, Dino, that there will be something there for you.

I am afraid I am quitting msfs for now, so I say "Thanks for all the fish".

I might be back. I can't say when though - could be tomorrow, next week, next month - it could even be never. I am going to rebuild my OS and clean out my system now. It's been fun.

Mike303 said...


Some other things I found while testing the SU-31
-Rain fx go forward on the canopy
-windows on the side and the underside of the plane have weird shifting artifacts when rain effects are present.
-3D model scale seem to be not correct (too small compared to POH dimensions) So defining a flightmodel with some more realistic dimensions,weight etc. is difficult or nearly impossible.

Regards,
Mike

Chris Brisland said...

Any news?

ngreenaway said...

thought you were gone?

Chris Brisland said...

That's as may be, But it doesn't stop me hoping for a commercial release soon. I know the boss has a day job, so I am hoping that there is something happening.

As for going away from msfs - that last update was a total disaster for me - it's taken a long time since 1.18.13 /14 /15 just to get my computer working again. I endid up completely uninstalling msfs, but made a booboo and ended up totally cleaning and rebuilding the PC. (Moral of the story: don't get angry at Asobo and then try to work in the bowels of your PC for "Murphy" will surely strike.

He Did!

So I had to reinstall windows from square 1. Added 4 TB of SSD space - 2TB on an M2 card directly on the MOBO for OS and standard "working" software and second on SATA., moved a lot of slower stuff to the 6 TB of HDD "spinners". So with a 2TB SSD not doing much, I did do a vanilla reinstall of msfs just to set a new baseline for my views of the game (it is no longer a simulator for me)

The basic game was better, but I will agree performance is now faster - at the cost of graphics quality. Also, the third party devs have made some improvements. I just dread to think what the next SU does. The World update in September might be OK. Or perhaps the game is faster because of the faster transfer rate from the SSD?

We shall see. Anyway, I am still not really back in msfs as such - Flying is not really interesting without a decent aerobatics plane and msfs are totally ignoring aerobatics, smoke, gliders and the like.

Ah well... perhaps if I reinstall FSX?

ngreenaway said...

oddly enough, ive had zero problems through the whole update process. I took the opportunity to empty my mods folder of pretty much everything but select payware.
no crashes to desktop, no freezes, nothing.thats with a simultaneous upgrade to WIN11 (which im not seeing much of a difference with outside of a few minor tweaks)

Still, i havent flown the su31, because i felt id have low confidence in my own data: are the problems i find due to the su31 itself, or a result of SU5. IFE has their hands full already, i didnt want to send them down an unnecessary rabbithole.

i wish SU5 never happened tho. ive gained one or two quality of life improvements, combined with a bunch of irritants, each of which is minor but cumulatively make me want to just find something else to do. anything but touch MSFS.

as for the slower stuff you moved to spinners, was that other programs or other components of MSFS? i have my flightsims and OS on a nvme drive, but the less critical portions of each (aircraft&scenery for MSFS, mods&liveries for DCS) symbollically linked on a slower ssd to remove some of the bloated directories

Chris Brisland said...

Anything msfs related is all on the SSD. By 'slower stuff' I meant the graphics software, music studio stuff and open office sort of thing is on the spinners. After all, WD Black drives are very reliable. Besides, those don't come anywhere near stretching my PC.

The worst thing about msfs now is that even my relatively fast internet connection (average 70 MBPS) keeps dropping out - probably because the microsoft servers are rather stressed these days.