This post contains a list of the known bugs or missing features in the latest Eurofighter Typhoon test build, as well as the latest version of the product manual. The product manual can be downloaded by anyone, and it is also meant as a preview of the Eurofighter simulation functionalities.
Beta testers are kindly requested to review this list of known bugs or shortcomings before reporting a new bug. Please be aware that the simulated Eurofighter differs in a number of ways from the real thing. Several controls and functions have been simplified or deleted, therefore a discrepancy from the real life procedures and operations may not be a bug but rather a design decision. The product manual serves also as a guide on how the simulated aicraft is intended to be operated and what functions are available and what not. Please read the manual fist.
The product manual can be downloaded by clicking HERE (UPDATED, 107 PAGES - tentatively good for release).
Bugs, request for changes and potential improvements in the list below are color coded as follows:
RED - High priority change - this is can be considered a major defect by most users. All "Red" issues must be addressed or mitigated before the product release.
YELLOW - Medium priority change - some users may perceive these issues as a significant product defect. All "Yellow" issues should be addressed or mitigated before the product release.
GREEN - Low priority change - a very limited number of users may perceive this as a product defect. These issues shall be documented and dealt with if possible.
BLUE - Suggestions for changes, additions or improvements.
LIST OF BUGS/CHANGES REQUEST
Last build: BETA 1-bis BUILD 13/03/2017 (limited distribution)
List updated on: 26/03/2017
Manual version: PreBeta 2 05/03/2017 (93 pages)
FLIGHT MODEL
The flight model has been developed by Roy Holmes - as the Typhoon performance figures are still classified, there is a lot of guesstimation in it - but rest assured that every single number has been carefully considered!
FM01 - Drag chute - While it is possible to deploy the drag chute, its effects are almost non-existent. Plan is to simulate it via the FSX flap controls
FM02 - Verify effectiveness of speed brake. SOLVED -> Roy fixed relevant code 07/03
FM03 - Coupled yaw during high-g high-speed turns. -> SOLVED with new air file from Roy 08/03
FM04 - No G-limiter or Carefree Handling (this is a known issue - we have not implemented one in the simulation as we had no sound implementation)
FM05 - Potential improvement on takeoff/Landing figures in progress (vRAF/Roy). -> New flight model from Roy 28/03
EXTERNAL VISUAL MODEL
I believe the external visual model is relatively accurate. There are three visible mistakes to the trained eye: the nose cone is slightly less "circular" than the real one, the wing in reality is more twisted and the airbrake hinge is round in reality, while it has sharp edges on the borders in my model. I have tried to correct these, but most come from the original mesh I've started with...and fixing them created more issues than benefits...so we'll have to live with them.
EXT01 - FCS overreacts at AoA when the aircraft is still on the ground (animation only). FIXED on internal build 09/03
EXT02 - Landing gear stem animation has a weird angle during extension and retraction. -> SOLVED in the internal build. Gear animation sequence redone.
EXT03 - Minor light leakage on fueleage openings nearby the cockpit (not really much visible, but noticable in VR pre-flight inspection). -> Partial solution applied. Minor gaps due to mesh disalignment...difficult to recover. Create "gap filler" geometry so that the issue is not that visible anymore. 07/03EXT04 - Light leakage in the main Landing gear pivot -> Fixed 3D model in internal build. 07/03
EXT05 - Request to smoothen the radar radome -> Minor tweak to radar radome geometry... not a big improvement, but still.... 07/03
EXT06 - Canards should be linked to speedbrake only on the ground -> SOLVED in internal build. Fixed animation code. 07/03 -> UPDATE 11/03...turns out from that it may not be true either. Canards are Always independent from speedbrake activation. FIXED
EXT07 - Landing Lights do not illuminate the ground -> SOLVED in internal build 07/03
EXT08 - Landing/Taxi light visible when gear is up -> Made it so that taxi/Landing lights are turned off if gear is up.
EXT09 - Request to revise inner pylons geometry. -> Fixed in internal build 10/03
EXT10 - Slats to deploy only depending on AoA -> Fixed in internal build 12/03
EXT11 - Request to improve the pointiness of the radome -> Attempt done...not sure if it looks really better, but still...11/03 - Changed radome shape in Beta1bis 15/03
EXT12 - Nose wheel does not rotate -> Fixed in internal build 10/03
EXT13 - Request to implement red anticollision
EXT14 - Fix squadron logo for german repaint -> Done 15/03
EXT15 - Create Spanish aicraft livery -> Done 15/03
EXT16 - Evaluate creation of Austrian livery
EXT17 - Evaluate creation of Saudi Arabia livery
EXT18 - Better color matching of pilot uniforms
EXT19 - Improve Brimstone Textures-> Done 23/03
Note that the VC is though to be "Cold and Dark" compatible. When the aicraft starts on the ground, several switches/avionics will be turned off. When it starts in the air, most (but not all) of the key switches will be set to ON.
Note also that clicking on the rear view mirrors in P3Dv3 will make them become reflective. Clicking on the stick will make it disappear. To make it appear again, click on the bolts of the pedestal.
VC01 - NAV/TAC soft key selection missing from the HSI page -> Fixed in build 24/03
VC02 - HUD Declutter can be improved -> Fixed in build 24/03
VC03 - Allow Aircraft refuel when on the ground through the FUEL page -> Implemented in build of 23/03
VC04 - Allow Weapons configuration from the STOR page when on the ground -> Implemented in build of 23/03
VC05 - Emergency IFF controls don't work -> FIXED 23/03
VC06 - Initialization and "ready for takeoff" conditions must be perfected -> Improved 23/03
VC07 - Park brake switch activates Smokewinders when on the ground (it is meant to work only in the air). -> SOLVED in internal build. Smoke system behaves as intended now: smoke is either trigged by the VRS Trigger or by the Brakes control if not on the ground.
VC08 - Fuel flow indications not working -> SOLVED in internal build. Typo on MFD3 code. 06/03
VC09 - HUD still reports the IAS -> SOLVED, replaced with equivalent airspeed. 08/03
VC10 - Make ladder non-retractable without weight-on-wheels. Ladder now auto-retracts with weight off wheels. 23/03
VC11 - Check mouse areas alignment on some buttons
VC12 - Some buttons can be operated only once? Need investigation - Likely to be the same issue as VC15
VC13 - IRST/FLIR button graphic is shifted when activating IRST -> SOLVED on current build 10/03
VC14 - Reversionary instruments panel is improperly labeled "Missile Launch Button" - Fixed in the internal build
VC15 - Request to Always confirm selections with ENTER key on DEK - FIXED on build 11/03, also, many improvements and bug fixes to DEK.
VC16 - Request to code proper RAD1 / RAD 2 switchology (at least for the battery gangbar) - RAD1 switch now works as Avionics Master and turns on the radios. RAD 2 switch acts as "Receive both" switch. PTT selector now allows selection of either RAD1 and RAD2.
VC17 - Canopy open/close button is in an incorrect position (but no clear photo available of the actual location) - Remodeled area. Fixed 10/03
VC18 - MASS positions are reversed (ARM should be outward) - Fixed in the internal build 09/08
VC19 - Check RADALT against the flight manual
VC20 - Transonic warning at 0.97 M not at 0.99 - Fixed in the internal build 09/08
VC21 - 5000ft voice warning is not present in current Eurofighter versions. - Removed from build 24/03
VC22 - Reflex of anticollision lights red (why not white)?
VC23 - Request to add countdown
VC24 - Cannot get back to the root menu once selected one item in CHKLST mode - Checked, current implementation seems correct. By deselecting the SEL button, the page reverts back to main menu.
VC25 - Check autopilot functionality
VC26 - Transponder mode A has no 0 digit - Fixed, graphical issue only. 10/03
VC27 - Some mouse areas cause a FSX crash (only one report on FSX-SE so far) - evaluating replacement of 2D Mouse Areas with 3D. FIXED - the applied fix seems to work.
VC28 - A/S and XMIT caps not lit -> Solved on current build 09/03
VC29 - Pedestal panel to lit -> Solved on current build 09/03
VC30 - NVE switch can cause CTD on FSX:SE on some installations -> SOLVED on current build 09/03
VC31 - Barometric pressure change to show only for 5 secs (currently 10) -> SOLVED on current build 10/03
VC32 - Cannot add a new WP until Direct-to route is present
VC33 - AT not operational
VC34 - Request to add scroll system for Low Height
VC35 - Flickering Speedbrake animation from VC - Fixed, animation glitch. 10/03
VC36 - Pitot tube icing - Fixed, pitot tube Always on. 15/03
VC37 - Master Starter switch has incorrect animation _ Changed animation sequence 29/03.
VC38 - Check Velocity Vector diamond behavior
VC39 - FUEL page has some flaws. Center tank should only display if external tank is mounted, refuel probe icon is incorrect. SOLVED - Fixed in current build,
VC40 - HSI compass rose to appear over map view, if map is invoked (note: the current rendition is correct for early T1 software releases)
VC41 - Add ZOOM+/ZOOM- functions to PA format - FIXED on 26/03
VC42 - Slow Refuel rate (need to be redone on F-35 too) - FIXED - Greatly increased fuel transfer rate.
VC43 - ATTACK format does not return to VS once format is changed. - FIXED on 26/03
VC44 - LASER ACTIVE crossairs missing from LDP page. - FIXED 15/03
VC45 - Laser designation was not selectable by the user as intedend - FIXED 15/03
VC46 - HSI HDG bug not properly centered - FIXED 23/03
VC47 - Taxi/Landing light switch position is reversed - FIXED 24/03
VC48 - TFLIR Image shows even if gimbal limited or masked - FIXED 28/03
VC49 - Implement selective jettison/tank jettison/emergency jettison - IMPLEMENTED 27/03
TACPACK AND WEAPON SYSTEM FUNCTIONALITY
Note that as for many European aircrafts, there are two safety switches that need to be "ON" before releasing a weapon. The Master Armament Safety Switch (MASS knob on the right console, three positions: SAFE, STANDBY and ARM) is controlled either in the VC or by pressing control+alt+A. The Late Arm Safe safety is on the stick, and can be operated by either clicking the button in the VC or with control+A.
TP01 - Laser Guided Bombs may fail to hit the target in some circumstances. Root cause not identified yet. -> Minor bug apparently fixed. LGBs seem to hit target now. Reports from testers that buddy-lasing seems to work.
TP02 - Meteor does not follow targets. Identified major bug in Tacpack code, A/S system tried to load GPS coordinates on any seeker including missiles. Hence the missile seeker dropped the radar track slaved mode. It affected all the missiles. Potentially affects also the latest F-35 release. SOLVED on current build 10/03.
TP03 - Flare dispensing direction is incorrect. Fixed in the current model 16/03
TP04 - Request to add Brimstone. Added 23/03
TP05 - Storm Shadow fins should be retracted. Fixed in the current model 10/03.
TP06 - Request to make STA5-6 and 8-9 independent.
TP07 - Request to add data cartridge functionality
TP08 - Check DASS system (apparently display not working in RMHHD)
TP09 - Radar detection range is currently linked to A-A missile selected. Request to change it. Implemented 26/03
SOUND
Another great job by Serge Luzin!
SND01 - Request to improve the switch sounds -> Implemented alternate switch sounds.
SND02 - Fuel Boost Pump Switch have default noisy sounds. Request to change them.
OTHER
Misc01 - External tanks and CFTs are not replenished in the configurator
Misc02 - CFTs cannot be unloaded in the configurator -> SOLVED in internal build. Reworked configurator code. Loads can now be deselected individually. 07/03
Misc03 - Manual is still missing some images and weapon information
Misc04 - Configuration file was missing the descriptions. -> SOLVED in the internal build.Misc05 - GBU-10 non deselectable in configurator -> SOLVED in the current internal build
101 comments:
Great start on the manual, Dino! Has an authentic military format - systems look outstanding.
Looking good Dino. The manual has a similar feel to the military manuals I read on a day to day basis at work. I have one minor typo that I found but I will email that to you directly for your next release version. Looking forward to this one!
Hey Dino, the flight dynamics are really well done, but I think i noticed a little bug, when I deployed the spoiler, the canards went down to the idle position
I am also noticing that the spoiler is not very effective; it deploys, but seems to cause no drag. Any one else experiencing this?
@Chris... I think you are right. Putting it on the list for verification.
@Owen - I have fixed the bug. They are supposed to do that on the ground.
Landing / Taxi light seems to be inop. All other lighting checks good, looks good!
@Chirs - noted, landing lights are always Tricky... apparently fixed in my build.
Is it within reason to make a model request for an aircraft?
small details that are easy to miss.
- The parachute handle is not clickable.
- The joystick once hidden, can not be retracted.
- Some buttons, once clicked are unable to redo the action for example the waypoint selector
- The switch's to swap over the MFD's are not clickable. (I thought some people would like this feature)
But apart from that I have done 9 hours in the Typhoon and loving it!
Thanks Dino for this epic creation!
The strobe light on the top reflects through to the cockpit, its kinda off putting. If you look into the ejection seat you can see the flash, it lights up the bar where the mirrors lay on.
@ 김선우 - Sorry I do not take requests. It takes more than one year to develop an aicraft...and since this is not my main job, I am only doing the aicrafts I like. But I listen to suggestions.
@Daniele
- Ladder: good suggestion.
- Mouse area alignment: I'll check what I can do...probably not much as the mouse areas come from different sources (3D and 2D gauge - the latter to make the button change appearance)
- Refuel probe animation: rejected... actually the EF-2000 fuel probe retraction is very fast!
- Buttons and sounds: noted...but I am not sure I agree.
- Taxi/Landing light: I'll see what I can do...
@Owen PS
- Drag chute is not implemented yet
- You should be able to make the stick appear again by clicking on the bolts in the pedestal
- Could you please provide a list of the buttons that do that?
- MHDD swap not implemented (as per my manual) to save memory and frame rates.
- Strobe light... I'll see what I can do
Thanks guys! I see you are enjoying it!
@Dino Cattaneo Darn.... Well, I can dream. lol
For some reason, when on P3D Profesional Plus and FSX, when entering numbers for IAS, HDG, Alt the screen goes black after two/three button presses on the number pad.
I also noticed FSX has no voice warnings unlike P3D? Not sure if it's just me
Sounds good. It is an impressive system / model.
Hi Dino,
on fsx (steam edition):
Autopilot issues:
-inserting heading on the DEK: it activates after the third digit without waiting the enter button.
-inserting altitude on the DEK is totally ineffective.
-inserting vertical rate on the DEK is totally ineffective
-on the ground while the smokes goes (i know u fixed it), flaps, slats and ailerons are flickering)
-Each time i use the SSK (expecially xprd button)and plays around a little causes an application freeze (pc restart needed, steam still sees the program running after a forced closure)
-transponder A mode to insert with the DEK has the 0 digit missing (only 1 to 7 instead of 0 to 7)
for the moment that's it... still didn't land once, always freezes before. Next flight will be totally vfr, so we'll see.
-Start up sequence is a little weird, just one switch for a 2 enjine? cutting off the start button just shuts off both enjines, there's a bit off mess with all the buttons in start up area, cutting out the switch above the start up switch just shuts one enjine...
-idle us really too high, the planes moves at idle if the brakes ar not engaged... it shouldn't
i'll write more as far as i find out
@Andrew/Daniele -> currently the DEK is programmed so that when the required digits are entered it automatically enters the data and closes the window. It would make more sense to add ENTER to confirm, I agree.
@Andrew -> Make sure you have voice warnings activated (first switch of the second row of the battery gangbar)
@Daniele
-> Checklist (I will check)
-> BRT actually, none of the HUD control will work in the current implementation (this was done to save some memory)
-> Reflex of anticollision light, I will check
-> Countdown... I will see. Not a priority
-> Lamp test not working -> correct, this is not implemented: but in general please remind that only the functions documented in the manual should work. All the other will not.
thanks!
Dino
@Nepher
As for the autopilot issue, are you entering the data after the autopilot mode is engaged? Engagement of autopilot mode is only for
Slat/flap flickering see issue number FM01
Unknown issue - this really should not happen (nor it seems to happen to other users...not sure what is causing this)
Transponder A mode (noted easy fix)
As far as I understand the sequence is correct, meaning the engine will start if their LP cock (L/R) is open and if their throttle is not set to stop in reality (starter is linked to the throttle)
Idle too high... maybe, but I quite like the overall engine envelope so I am not keen on changing it.
Testing in p3dv3....
Flew instrument approaches in the weather, had pitot tube freeze up on me. Not seeing mention of pitot heat in manual, nor could i find it in cockpit. Is it implemented? Had to use key command. If the switch is there, i appologize, if not.... maybe it should be on all the time? Loosing airspeed indicator on short final is not fun.
As previous tester commented, would be nice to input frequency with xxx.xx Enter, vs xxx.xxxxx. understand if it is not a priority.
I am unable to load fuel into external wing tanks by hitting 'refuel' in the configurator. Center-line fuel tank works fine. Could just be my system, happens on the F35 Too. I end up having to manually add fuel to those tanks in the fuel and payload menu option.
Very impressed thus far. You have a winner on your hands. Looking forward to testing it in multiplayer next week with other testers.
@Dino,
-regarding the freeze and start up switches issues if u want i can make a short video and send it to you via mail (don't worry i'll compress it) so you can see on your own what happens ;)
-regarding autopilot issue yes, i enter commands while autopilot is engaged, as it's intended to be used when receiving instructions by the atc
@Nepher - no need for that. But I have one question: does it happen when you use the SSK (i.e. A/S, XMIT etc.) or also with the Moding keys and keypad? Can you operate the MFDs? I am puzzled as everything is programmed in the same way - and it works fine here both in FSX-SE and P3D.
@dino
it happens only with the SSK, no problem with all the other keys (issues already reported apart, but no crash or freeze with anything else)
I'm having issues with A/G bombing. It could be me as I have not really done any A/S.
When I set a flight from EGXC, over Donna Nook with a TACPACK SAM site enabled, I enter the co-ordinates through PP ENTR key however it doesn't seem to show anything on the HUD when flying over the SAM site. Help / Guidance on A/S would be great.
@Daniele
Thanks.
@nepher99
Thanks. I really don't know what is happening but the problem seems confined to your case. I had a similar (unexplained) issue during development on another key. I will try to reroute all the Mouse Areas to the 3D model. I think there may be occasions in which the engine may have issues with mixed 2D/3D mouse controls.
@Andrew
I am sorry for the lack of documentation... the A/S procedures in the Eurofighter are a mix between real life Eurofighter and VRS Tacpack generic implementation.
Long story short, assuming an LGB10 is loaded, You should:
- Select A/S mode
- For a PP attack, enter the coordinates as you did
- Select PP option (otherwise nothing will show on the HUD, awaiting for a TOO). LPD should also show the target.
- Select the intended release mode
Hi Dino!
People are reporting bugs faster than I'm finding them, but I do have one extra one for you regarding the airbrake as seen from the VC. When selected to deploy, it "flickers" in place rather than extending and retracting as per the external model.
More to follow as I work through the systems but so far it's a brilliant bit of work once again! :)
Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim
Ever heard of the Xian MA60? Turboprop Chinese airliner good airplane.....
@김선우
Yes, I saw your comments on this blog and elsewhere. It seems a great Aircraft, however I do not take requests, as I explained previously. Aside, your comment is off-topic, this post is meant to collect feedback from the Typhoon Beta 1 testing.
@ScimmiaSpaziale
oh yeah.... their next project??? MA60 Turbprop PW127J engines nice sound.... ATR 42-300/320 series and ATR 72–200/210 series have 4 blade similar sound this...
@김선우 once again I am sorry but you are off topic. Then, my next project will be a SIAI-S211, please see the relevant updates on this blog, and leave this thread for the Eurofighter Beta. Thanks for your understanding.
@Daniele
A) Cockpit back - minor detail. I'll put that on the list and then we'll see.
B) Strange...it illuminates correctly on my system, it is much darker... I'll investigate.
C) That is because the plane is using default FSX light system. It should not be like this in reality...but it is a very low priority change IMHO.
@Dino Cattaneo
oh no... why my are off topic??
@Dino Cattaneo
so last next project??
Ok- INITIAL Beta feedback, broken into sections:
Test Platform: FSX Steam Edition with Steve's DX10 Fixer + Cloud Shadows
Test Location: KTPH (Tonopah Airport, NV- elev. +5000 ft MSL), ASN set for clear weather.
Test Times: 1200 local, 1500 local, 1600 local.
External-
1- When the engines are on, parking brake on (or just wheel brakes held), doing an engine run up causes the flaperons to "jiggle", as if set to flaps 2 then no flaps repeatedly. The phenomenon only happens when at a standing stop. This also affects slats, they extend and retract repeatedly and instantly.
2- Unable to locate taxi or landing lights. The model shows where they are, but they are not illuminating at all. I used the keyboard shortcut for ALL LIGHTS, and was unable to see the sprites for the landing lights at all. All other lights (except red beacon) function normally.
3- Flaperons setting 1 and 2 do not appear to have any visual counterpart in the exterior model. I can use the joystick to change their positions, but setting flaps with the standard shortcuts does not appear to have a visual change. It does however affect the flight dynamics. The audio gives the impression that something is moving, but nothing moves.
4- Canards deflection seems a little too extreme. Gently pitching up and down, looking from the front, the canards seem fine. Pulling the stick halfway back almost instantly flips the canards down, even at high speeds (I could see low speeds where there is not enough airflow). Pushing the stick all the way forward has the same effect. Canards in the "speedbrake" position.
5- Rudder ineffectual on the ground(?) Not sure if this is a bug or common Eurofighter behavior. I do a controls wipeout before taxiing, and full rudder deflection seems less than when in the air. Nosewheel steering deflects properly however. Rudder functions at takeoff speeds.
Flight Handling-
(Note- Initial tests at KTPH- elevation +5000 ft. Next tests will be at KNQX- elevation 5 ft.)
1- (This could be part of the actual jet) Flaperon setting two requires a lot of throttle to remain airborne, let alone maintain approach speed. In my initial circuits, I had to land in Flaps 1 because Flaps 2 was difficult to compensate for. Tried again with flaps two and had to keep the throttle to full military power to keep her on the glide slope at 12 - 14 AOA. During this time AOA creeps up, as keeping it close to level will result in instant drop from altitude.
2- Aileron rolls (with or without rudder input) at maneuvering speed (+300 kts) a little slow. Tried in two scenarios. Scenario one with no weather, STD baro, and scenario 2 with high pressure, winds, clouds, same area. With weather was less maneuverable as expected, but during calm weather, responsiveness seemed sluggish. (This could be due to high elevation as well, and may not be a proper bug)
***NOTE- I have no idea what the proper responsiveness should be, and am comparing to other aircraft I have flown in FSX, most notably, Tomcat***
Internal-
1- Voice system announces altitude twice, if at high altitude airport, while parked. This happens immediately after flipping the switch for the voice system on.
***Note- My test area of KTPH is at 5429 feet MSL. My next tests will be done at KNQX (5 ft. MSL).
2- Generator switches have no associated sounds.
3- Right MFD Checklist typo- PRE TAXY. Should be PRE-TAXI.
4- APU button. I am unclear as to what this actually does. It does not appear to hinder startup if not depressed. It is not affected with common FSX shortcut for engine start. No sounds are generated once it is pressed.
5- Master start switch does not move to on position if FSX keyboard shortcut for engine start is used. Clicking the switch results in the engines turning off, but the switch remains in the off position. Clicking again results in engine turning on, but switch does move to ON position.
This is all I have for the initial tests. Smokewinder bug was disabled by "//commenting out" the responsible lines in the aircraft.cfg.
Next test series will involve tacpak, to run through all systems, and will be performed at a sea level airbase.
@김선우 - I thought it was clear you were (and still are) off topic. This is a thread about the Eurofighter 2000 testing, and your comments are not about it. As for my next project, I have replied above and, once again, it is going to be the SIAI-S211.
@Drew
Flight model
1 - Actually there is no pilot-selectable flap setting. The flap system (unused by the eurofighter) is being prepared to be used as drag chute.
2 - Maybe... unfortunately the Eurofighter flight model is still classified.
Intrnal
1 - I have to revise the 5k voice alert, it seems not to be present in the latest software of the real plane. BTW all Category 4 warnings play twice.
2 - That is because I am using standard FSX Mouse Areas associations
3 - Not sure this is correct. The real world Eurofighter RAF checklist reports "TAXY" which I understand it is an uncommon, but valid, British English word. I spotted this while writing the code and left the "y" to make it sound british ;-)
4 - APU button is associated to basic FSX-APU...which basically means it does nothing. As for other Keys, I made it operable for procedural reasons.
5 - Will check that. At the moment, however, it is using standard FSX code.
NOTE:
As for Tacpack, please read the issue found so far (especially TP02) - the build you have is erratic in A-A radar slaving.
Regarding the crash on button presses (VC30), I am using FSX Acceleration and I have had this a few times, once was on pressing the FLIR and another on the NVE button and sometimes when i lock a new radar target using enter. Sometimes if i wait a while the Not responding message goes and flight resumes but other times it results in a crash to desktop.
Im not sure if its just my machine but when i click the designated switch on my throttle quadrant for the spoilers, the spoilers do not react and when I press "/" i have to press it 2 or 3 times for the spoilers to deploy, also would it be possible to have a standard typhoon load-out e.g. 1000 litre wing tanks, 2 SRAAM's and 4 BVRAAM's because the sidewinders are nice but arent that nice when your doing a display. also it would be really cool if you added the fuel trail for "dump fuel" from the tail like the typhoon does in real life, like with your F-35's you had the fuel jettisoned from the wing.
Owen, I have had this to, but thought it may just be my throttle, but this makes me think not.
Also just had a second crash to desktop when pressing the NVE Button(FSX Acceleration).
@James Donaldson Webster
- The new build is more stable, although technically the code was not doing anything "wrong" the mouse areas had strange issues with FSX.
@Owen PS
- As for the spoiler, I am sorry but I cannot replicate the issue
- Standard configuration: more configurations will be added through MFD3 selection
- AFAIK, the typhoon does not have a fuel dump system https://theaviationist.com/tag/fuel-dumping/
@Daniele
- M key not working: it should always work in VC views...strange issue. But actually the M key does only change the PoF.
- WPT steering: was the steering set to GPS?
- DEL WPT should be in the SWP SSK, but it is not working due to a bug.
As for your suggestions:
- No TP for loadout....noted but it will not happen. Reason is that configurator without TP required additional external dll which I do not want to add for compatibility reasons.
- ECM decoy and ground equipment was not included to save memory (for new weapons)
- NAV/BCN reflections...will look into that.
...the flight model is Roy's work... not mine! He did a great job indeed.
Dino, I confirm Dean Crawford's note on the speed brake just flickering in place when deployed, as seen from within the VC. External view animation is fine.
On Chris' point about wing external fuel tanks not filling: I was able to fill them by using the P3D's fuel/load management interface built into the sim menu. ideally, of course, this function would be performed by your ACM, with maybe a slider to allow fuel load adjustments other than 0 or 100% in each tank.
Comment about sound.... when turning on the fuel boost pumps, i get the default fsx fuel pump sound.... rather loud and annoying (and noticeably default). May improve immersion if that sound is removed or substituted. I doubt it sounds like that in the jet.
Will be testing multiplayer with toby tonight.
@Toby
The speedbrake was mapped to the incorrect animation in the VC - fixed now.
As for the fuel, the comment was indeed that it was not possible to fill them through the configurator.
@Chris
Agree about the fuel boost pump... annoying. I will see what I can do.
@Daniele
Would be great. First step might be to get everyone's time zones, and arrive at common workable time window.
@Dino
Three of us conducted multiplayer (MP) test last night in P3Dv3 w/ TacPack:
1) Flight controls and CFT's are "mirroring", all else is not mirroring - excellent for MP usage, just needs a couple more fixes.
2) Radar detection range of air targets appears too short - being limited to selected missile's max range? Targets not detected until within maybe 38nm.
Good stuff: we were able to buddy- and self-lase for good LGB hits, manually load each other's HMD-generated TOO coordinates for successful JDAMS hits. All guided perfectly for bullseyes. Meteor and AIM-132 guided perfectly - just need radar detection range moved out to actual range of radar, not limited by weapons selected.
One more issue:
None of us appeared to have working RWR (DASS?), could not detect each other's radars.
@Roy
Flight model is highly conducive to rock-solid, precision control in close formation flight. Thank you for ensuring this quality is present in the FDE. Greatly expands the potential usage of this model in TP / tactical scenarios.
@ 김선우
Dino has been very patient, going back and forth with you on this blog. He's told you what his next project is, and has told you this area is just for those helping to test/develop his Eurofighter Typhoon. Perhaps there is a language barrier, which is resulting in you being slow to understand.
It's great that you are interested in his projects, but you need to head over to some of the other areas to make your future comments. You're effectively soaking up energy here that could slow down our progress.
Share your good ideas and thoughts on Dino's site, but STAY OFF THIS CHANNEL.
@Daniele: I'm the farthest away from you in our MP group, GMT-7 (Los Angeles). Is 2000Z workable for you any day of the week, or too late?
Dino, weapon suggestion: can we add dumb a bomb option to loadout (Mk82, Mk84 or both)? Would be nice for users to be able to use the simple CCIP manual mode without being required to learn laser and GPS systems. There are many in the sim community who will love dropping simple iron bombs from the Typhoon, and the added smart bomb technology would be a barrier to their enjoyment.
On earlier analysis of roll rate: I think Typhoon instantaneous roll rate is about 250 deg / second, roughly the same as F-16's 240 deg / second. Current model seems to do that on my system. I think a number of sim settings can materially affect this.
@Daniele -- I am GMT - 4, and available much of this week. I am also available most of the days that Toby is; would be great to get a flight with you. We had a great time testing multiplayer last night. We just need to figure out a way to get in contact with you without giving out our contact info here.
@Dino -- I will add to Toby's comments, that the speed-brake also mirrored in multiplayer; but overall, it was a great formation platform and besides the mirroring, things worked well. I too would like to see the possibility for a dumb bomb.
I could not figure out a way to cycle through or select air to air weapons without using the W key -- perhaps I'm missing something. I was also not able to pickle off the Storm Shadow munition -- all other guided ordinance came off and tracked properly.
Lastly, was there a change to the flight dynamics on the updated beta? We had to rotate to 20 degrees nose up for takeoff last night, and on landing it also had a very high AOA. Felt uncomfortable, where before it felt perfect. Recovered clean with 1kg of fuel.
Again, beautiful work,
Chris
Regarding Chris' point about high AOA on landing and takeoff: in the current build, my flaps never deploy - only slats. Probably explains the excessive AOA. I see your guide states 12 deg AOA on approach, 14 deg over the threshold, which the flaps would probably facilitate.
Another great addition Dino. Been testing her for about a week now and loving it. I see some great insight from the other testers and have noticed what they all are talking about. This will be a masterful addition to all military aviation inventories on all platforms.
A small note on the Weapons Configurator, on the new release all stores are de selectable except the GBU-10 which is not deselectable - not a major problem just a note.
Got it, Daniele - thanks, and delete your post!
Hi guys,
still away from home - sorry for the lack of support.
Miscellaneous comments:
- Missile detection range: yes it is currently linked to the missile selected, although the plan was to allow the user to be able to select it
- Dumb bombs: sorry it will not happen. The external visual model is already way too big, and space has been allocated for Stormshadow and Brimstone weapon systems. BTW they will not be present but not useable in the retail build.
- DASS not working... not sure why, I'll have to check
- Changes to the flight model: well, actually thing is that Beta1 had a maneuvering flap system (2 positions) which was not meant to be there, and made the landing and takeoffs much easier... the original plan was to use the flap system as drag-generator for the drag-chute (which is partially implemented in Beta1bis)... The Typhoon has not pilot-selectable flap system. BTW do not look at the animations in the external model....which are just animations. So the flap entries in the aicraft.cfg were probably due to a misunderstanding between me and Roy...I am clarifying this with him.
@Dino - there will be some sort of flap effect (auto-flaps) added to the Typhoon? Ozzy and I flew it again in MP last night, and it's a bear to get airborne and land, with 20 deg nose up required. I'm pretty sure you intend to add that back in, just want to be clear.
DASS: I did see Ozzy's AI radar on the scope intermittently. Came and went without apparent logic, but it is there at least. As I think Chris noted prior, SAM radars do appear.
Went out and did some mid-air refueling with Toby tonight; system works, but very low fuel transfer rate. It looked like we were getting 12 kg per minute of AR; that equals about 30lbs per minute -- needs to be increased. I'm a real-world tanker pilot, and I can't remember the average flow rate for a drogue set-up, but it should be around 1,500 lbs or 680kg. The VRS superbug is probably pretty accurate, and they take approx 1,700 lbs per min. I mention the superbug, because I think (in this instance) the limiting factor on the AR transfer rate is the probe and drogue setup, not the receiver aircraft.
Very much enjoying flying the Typhoon. However, the lack of the maneuvering flaps (or whatever the change was from previous beta) makes for some high-aoa flying in normal regimes.
I can confrim it's a pain to fly the typhoon at low speed without flaps (nice exercise though). Thought I was doing something wrong after finally understanding the cockpit. :P
Question on metric versus ICAO standard measurement: the aviation world operates predominantly on nautical miles (distance/speed), feet (elevation/altitude/VV) and pounds (fuel, weight & balance) - does the real Typhoon use kilograms for fuel?
@All
The .air file is being reworked to allow for a better Landing and T/O behavior. Please note that rotation speed indicated in the manual is too slow - it should be around 160kts.
@Daniele
Old canopy label - it is intentional: this is what I have seen on pictures from BAe (label but no switch).
Transponder controls - this is the same issue as VC05, those controls are not programmed yet
ALT HOLD - Actually, you should not experience any change in behavior below 250kts. Anyway this is the old FSX issue with standard autopilot: it is not good for fast jets.
B-SCOPE/VS - I'll see what I can do. Basically, the B-Scope is the default ATTACK format, so any change of format will revert to B-SCOPE.
Strange stall - in the end it is FSX
@Toby
Yes, Typhoon fuel weight is in kilograms.
@Dino: Will you apply this fix to the F-35 as well, so those missiles can track correctly?
"TP02 - Meteor does not follow targets. Identified major bug in Tacpack code, A/S system tried to load GPS coordinates on any seeker including missiles. Hence the missile seeker dropped the radar track slaved mode. It affected all the missiles. Potentially affects also the latest F-35 release. SOLVED on current build 10/03."
@Toby
Definitely - actually I meant to release a F-35 update as soon as the EF-2000 is finished.
Hi Dino,
Just an update on the flight model for you, which I know is already being tested and adjusted further. After some considerable testing, the main issue seems to be in the aircraft's standard AoA. Even during level flight the aircraft seems to be a little nose high. The velocity vector doesn't sit well with the nose pitch angle. This is especially noticeable in the take off and landing phases, where excessive AoA is required to maintain stable flight even at low landing weights.
The real-world Typhoon seems to land at around 130-150 KIAS maximum, based on my own observations at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire as well as various YouTube videos. The aircraft's large delta configuration should provide a lot of lift and a low wing loading, especially at low speeds.
Rotation speed at maximum weight shouldn't be much above 150 KIAS, maybe 160 tops but is currently 200 KIAS even when clean. This is a very long way off the mark - Typhoons in the circuit at Coningsby can fly extremely slowly as they climb out, albeit in clean configuration and low fuel weights for the OCU training curriculum.
The engine settings seem right ( obviously based only on comparison to other aircraft via videos ) so it must be something about the aerodynamics that's upsetting the low speed handling. Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim
@Dean
Thanks - we already have a new flight model which seems much better in every respect.
Another couple of minor issues noted, not sure if this is a flaw or just the way things are these days:
1) AA missiles launch upward off the rail instead of being pushed down. It could be that they drop behind the aircraft and then the motors fire and they pull up and over but it happens very quickly.
2) In multiplayer using JoinFS, I was unable to obtain any radar tracks. I tried off line using TacPack, with a drone, but again was unable to detect anything. Probably something I'm missing but thought it worth mentioning.
Cheers,
Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim
Dean, I don't think joinfs is ready for prime time with TacPack. They are working on it, though. Recommend we stick with true P3Dv3 multiplayer environment for beta testing. We have a few servers, you are welcome to join us.
Correct, Daniele - we must use an older version of FSR (1.3?) and manually "force" it to run in newer versions of P3D. And most of us experience "jitter" of recorded aircraft when they are played back. The only guy I know who has a smooth experience is Chris, who is part of our Typhoon beta team. When he has time, I'm hoping we can learn his settings and achieve smoothness.
Until then, JoinFS is a good alternative - but just for flying formation practice, not beta testing. It has limitations that were detailed recently in this blog, and we won't be helping Dino if we report bugs we discover in JoinFS - they may have nothing to do with the Typhoon model. I understand JoinFS is being actively improved for P3Dv3, and I'm very interested in using it as soon as it is fully developed.
@ Toby
Thanks for the offer! However, having been unable to detect targets in JoinFS I then started a Free Flight with TacPack on and spawned a drone. I wasn't able to detect that on radar either, despite closing in on it from 10nm astern and eventually shooting it down with guns. Weapons are all live and armed, AA mode selected, radar TWS at various ranges. Am I missing something? Is everybody else able to detect AA targets and launch weapons against them?
@Dino
Your excellent F-35 radar works fine in JoinFS I believe but will ask the chaps for confirmation.
Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim
@ Dean:
Earlier in this blog, we had identified that the radar limits its detection range to that of the selected weapon. For your test, you'd need to have the target within the missile's range before you'd see the target on the scope. Is this possibly causing your "not detected" state?
For example, if I select Meteor, then set a target at 60nm, it will not appear on the scope.
If this is your situation, then Dino's on it - full radar range detection will probably be in next build.
Hi guys:
a couple of notes on the radar thing.
- The current Beta1bis radar has a bug, so that basically it is locked to 40Nm range if a missile is selected. In the next implementation, it will default at 60Nm but can be adjusted with RNG+ and RNG- controls in the attack page. This will be fixed in the new build. Note that FSX / P3D have a limit (which I think it is about 80Nm...but I could be wrong) so that traffic outside that range is "non-existent" and cannot be detected.
- Also, unless a missile is selected, if the radar is powered, it defaults to STANDBY mode (i.e. you have to set it to RADIATE in the XMIT page)
- The Typhoon has a strictly Tacpack only radar (i.e. it relies only on data provided by Tacpack - the F-35 TSD, on the other hand, interrogates the FSX/P3D radar database).
BR
Dino
@Dino:
Radar range: the Aerosoft F-14X has radar range of 200nm, can detect and engage aerial targets. Don't know how they are doing it, but it does work. I'm hoping there is a way to achieve actual Typhoon radar range, but of course 80nm will be a great improvement. Looks like you're modifying radar function to make it an excellent tool. Control over radiation (on/off) will be critical in a live adversary TacPack session.
Looks like you've addressed the vast majority of issues in the coming build - when can we expect to see that released, Dino? It is going to be beautiful with all the fixes!
@Toby
Maybe I was wrong about the actual FSX/P3D "event-horizon" - I do not recall the exact figure. But there is a limit after which FSX/P3D ignores the traffic (maybe it does not apply to multiplayer aircraft).
Anyway, in its current rendition, the Typhoon defaults to 80Nm and can go up to 140Nm (and down to 10Nm). If Tacpack can see a target it will be detected.
As I will not have much time in the next few weeks, I have decided to release a "go-nogo" Beta 2 test version in the next few days... I will release the Typhoon as soon as the Beta 2 "works".
Hello Dino,
After flying beta1bis a little more, and reading up some more through the manual and aircraft, I feel I can say that at least in my sim, your Typhoon seems to have way too little lift. From the documentation I have here, with a QRA loadout (3 Tanks, 4 ASRAAM, 4 AMRAAM) the aircraft should unstick around 125 knots with full afterburner. In sim, with the same load and power setting, I find it takes anywhere upwards of 170 knots to get the main gear off the deck. Also, by the book, the Eurofighter should land anywhere between 130-150 knots, but for me the aircraft is hard enough to hold at 160 knots, needing a very high AoA at even that speed. The low speed handling is also affected.
Another issue, in sustained higher G turns, the aircraft has a habit of yawing and entering a sort of spin, which does not bode well when performing virtual airshows, so if this is fixable or realistic, please let me know.
Hope this should help,
Robert Skipworth.
@Rob Skip
Thanks - you can see the discussion on takeoff and landing speeds above. The flight model has been vastly reworked and takeoff and landing speeds are now much lower (although for the record, in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzBeJrvjPrU rotation is called at 170 kts). I am confident that the new flight model by Roy will be appreciated.
Hi Dino, a super-fast update for you having downloaded and done a 20-minute test flight with the new Beta as I work from home at the same computer I fly on :)
1) Installer works fine, no problems at all.
2) Flight model is WAY better, much more manageable at low speeds. Rotation all good at 140 KIAS with 50% fuel, and I was able to float it in above the runway as low as 120 KIAS before touching down. Less drag in turns, and they look about right when replaying from tower view in terms of AoA and turn rate etc.
3) The canards still "wobble" in a high-G pull up, but it's no deal breaker and they do not do the same thing in a level break ( maybe a G-Force related glitch? )
4) TacPack weapons selection all working okay.
5) Level flight looks perfect now, with the high AoA all gone. Matches well with images on the Internet etc of Typhoons in level flight.
I'll test other stuff tonight but so far, this is already definitely worth the 25 Euros in my opinion! A great job! Now, I must get that 11 Sqn paint done for the chaps! :)
All best,
Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim
P.S. The rotation in the video you link to above is conducted under display circumstances for a performance take off, during which pilots do rotate at a higher speed for greater energy up into the vertical departure. Normal take offs rotate at a lower airspeed, depending on payload of course.
Dean, MODsim
I removed the aircraft from my folder and ran the installer. The installer worked fine, but it should be noted that I had to point it to my FSX Steam folder. EZDok 2 recognized it as installed and loaded my camera settings i made for the beta. This is great.
Immediate issue I noticed after start up. The smokewinder smoke is on when the engine has been started. It does NOT abate if you remove the smokewinders and install nothing, or other missiles. I used weapon loadout prior to taxi, after the engines were on. I did not try turning off then reloading munitions, nor restarting the sim and changing them before starting.
All internal systems are working except Fuel on MFD did not appear to be changing. It remained at full fuel throughout my test flight. Shift Z indicated NO fuel was being used. Unsure what is causing that.
Tacpack works but, when I armed my air to air missiles I had "bitching betty" tell me ICS fail. Unfortunately I do not have enough time this morning to investigate, but it could be user error. I WAS able to shoot (several) something(s) down however, so working as intended for me.
Takeoff and landing speeds seem fine, handling is also fine.
I was unable to test air to ground implementation.
Is it worth 25 Euros? Yes I think so. P3D will likely get more out of it since I cannot use things like FLIR in FSX Steam, especially not on DX10.
I say GO, after verifying the smokewinders are not an issue.
I'm going to do a first look video before the weekend to coincide with your launch.
@Dean
Canard wobble - this is somewhat intentional, meaning that I have been told (and read in a pilot interview) that at high Gs the canard work counter-intuitively and reverse their motion in order to prevent a tendency to depatures. Hence at high Gs the motion starts to "reverse" - if you are on the edge of the set limit, you may see them wobble.
Agree that the aerobatic T/O rotation is way above the regular ones, and I was not trying to defend the Beta1bis settings - it is just one datum point (frankly the only one certain I have, as Eurofighter performance tables are still classified ;-) )
@Drew Bolton - I'll have a look at the smokewinders display conditions. As for the fuel that definitely should not happen... actually it does not on my system, although I spotted a small bug in one of the fuel tanks.
Much nicer attitude in flight (AOA seems lower, more "real"), and takeoff was beautiful, rotating at 140 and lifting off easily in a clean jet (no external stores).
Flaps never deploy, in any regime. I'm assuming LE and TE flaps should deploy at low speed, to increase wing camber and incidence, lowering the nose and improving forward visibility (on landing, for example). Maybe Typhoon does not behave this way?
Smokewinders did not malfunction in P3Dv3 as they did for Drew. Smoke starts and stops on command, changing loadout away from Smokewinders is no problem.
Fuel burn is normal, but visual map of fuel cells is not "burning down" correctly to match numbers in at least one of the cells. I have pics at home, can send to you if it helps to diagnose. The cell I saw on visually burning down (though liter count did burn down) seemed to have its visual tied to a fuselage tank - it bruned down in lockstep with the fuselage tank visual.
Correction on flaps: I just remembered that leading edge devices are slats, not flaps - and they seem to function correctly. My question is only about the trailing edge flaps never deploying.
Typhoon does not have TE Flaps
As Drew pointed out, this installer must be pointed at a location. Can you have it pre-populate based on sim installed on system? I'm concerned that some simmers may not be familiar with FSX or P3D file system, and you may have many botched installations and tech support questions that could be avoided. Either pre-populate, or include written guidance on the pop-up window, illustrating the default location for each sim?
I agree with Daniele - could be helpful to have another week to test everything, but I also understand you'll continue to update it as necessary. Either way, yes, I think it's a good buy as you've priced it. I will buy it, and recommend it to others - it's the least I can do to support your extensive development work for the sim community over the years!
+ 1 on the fuel readouts not matching up correctly.
I also think that a brief note on installation in the manual or similar would avoid a lot of minor tech support requests.
Otherwise it's a GO from me, and without a doubt this is the best Typhoon ever developed for FSX / P3D, well worth the price! :)
Dean, OCPR, MODsim
@All
once again, thanks a lot for your help.
Polishing such kind of products is a never-ending process... Problem is that my schedule is full for April, so I need to release this soon - or wait for May (and then maybe I will not have much time in those weeks either).
So, I will try and fix some issues and then release this weekend.
Just tryed the beta 2... it's really close to perfection!
I noticed all the improvements, as the fixed default vertical rate (now 5000ft/min)
The AP set heading is perfect, but the set altitude system is not working!
You set ap, alt (ad it keeps present altitude) then you press set alt, and the left panel goes on, you set the new altituse, ent... and nothing happens!
On my saitek external panel everything works fine, but not anyone has an external imput device so, as that system is the only one to set altitude (for instance in the goshawk we have the possibility to set it via keys or via mfd) i think that if you fix it the plane is fully enjoyable and perfect for a first release (and as payware it worth each single cent!!!)
other minor issues can be fixed evenually after launch (as the start up working even if APU is off, i think all apu system is not set at all, am i right?) but it's really a minor issue!
Really really great job! wow wow wow!!!
Dino, did some weapons testing.
Radar missiles selected, radar appears able to detect out to its max range - good!
Heat missiles selected, radar still appears to be restricted - possibly to around 30nm?
No tone for any heat missiles: tested AIM-132, IRIS-T, AIM-9X. No growl at any time.
@Nepher
Identified and solved bug in the autopilot altitude hold
@Toby
Identified and solved bug in missile tone code (tone volume knob was mapped to the wrong variable and always muted the growl)
Actually...there should be no differences between the IR missiles and the others. But I fixed a bug that made it so that, upon gun selection, the radar range was reset to 6Nm (Gun Director mode). Now the radar range is still 6Nm for the gun director, but should stick to the assigned value in all other cases.
Thank you guys
Quick note, i did some flying last night, and this time I changed weapons loadout BEFORE starting the engines... no smokewinder issue. However when restarting my flight and leaving them on... issue.
Also for some reason my parking brake is not taking when i use my joystick button (which is mapped to the default fsx keybind for it).
Still no idea why my fuel will not be used. always full. I do not think I have a cheat setting on for FSX, but will check tonight to be sure it may not have been turned on accidentally.
I am in process of doing a first look video. Do you have an idea what the url will be for when it is on sale on sim market? And will it be on sale elsewhere too? I understand the price will be 25 euros.
Bar the Altitude Hold Issue, It's a "Go Flight" from myself and vRAF
Dino, the HUD display is not restricted to just the combining glass surface - if I move my head far to the left, for example, the symbology still floats out in space in front the aircraft.
Ah, Right External does not Refill through the manager "No Go"
Dino, back on March 13 we reported control surface, CFT, and speed brake mirroring in multiplayer. I don't see this addressed in the blog - did those issues get looked at?
TO & Landing characteristics seem much more believable now and certainly seem in line the way I see RAF Typhoons flying locally.
Dino, I have some footage you that you might want to use. I also told Froogle and Novawing24 I would send it to them as footage as well. There is no voiceover on it, nor writing, just editing aerobatic and air to air combat footage. Please let me know where I can send it to you.
Also for my first look video scheduled on Monday, I just need to confirm that the price is 25 Euros (or regional monetary equivalent), and it will be available at SimMarket, FlightSimStore, and FSPilot Shop?
Thanks, and thank you for the amazing opportunity to help beta test this aircraft!!
Drew
Dino, Ozzy and I ran a TacPack multiplayer test on systems today, and all works well except the following:
1) RWR (DASS?) does not display emitting airborne radars. Whether the other plane is friend, foe, painting or locked, no indications. SAM threats are indicated, so we know the gauge is powered on.
2) With the other plane flying BEHIND the Typhoon, the other plane still gets radar indications on its RWR from Typhoon. It's as if the Typhoon radar is transmitting in a 360 deg circle.
Hola Buenas.
Seria posible mapear los botones de los MFD para poder usar los MFD de Thrustmaster?
Estaria genial tener esa opcion para poderlos configurar en mi cabina que me estoy construyendo.
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