Tuesday, February 21, 2017

Eurofighter Beta Test - List of Known Issues


This post contains a list of the known bugs or missing features in the latest Eurofighter Typhoon test build, as well as the latest version of the product manual. The product manual can be downloaded by anyone, and it is also meant as a preview of the Eurofighter simulation functionalities.
Beta testers are kindly requested to review this list of known bugs or shortcomings before reporting a new bug. Please be aware that the simulated Eurofighter differs in a number of ways from the real thing. Several controls and functions have been simplified or deleted, therefore a discrepancy from the real life procedures and operations may not be a bug but rather a design decision. The product manual serves also as a guide on how the simulated aicraft is intended to be operated and what functions are available and what not. Please read the manual fist.

The product manual can be downloaded by clicking HERE (UPDATED, 93 PAGES - still missing some figures and the weapons system chapter).

Bugs, request for changes and potential improvements in the list below are color coded as follows:

RED - High priority change - this is can be considered a major defect by most users. All "Red" issues must be addressed or mitigated before the product release.

YELLOW - Medium priority change - some users may perceive these issues as a significant product defect. All "Yellow" issues should be addressed or mitigated before the product release.
GREEN - Low priority change - a very limited number of users may perceive this as a product defect. These issues shall be documented and dealt with if possible.
BLUE - Suggestions for changes, additions or improvements.

LIST OF BUGS/CHANGES REQUEST
Last build: BETA 1-bis BUILD 13/03/2017 (limited distribution)
List updated on: 26/03/2017
Manual version: PreBeta 2 05/03/2017 (93 pages)

FLIGHT MODEL
The flight model has been developed by Roy Holmes - as the Typhoon performance figures are still classified, there is a lot of guesstimation in it - but rest assured that every single number has been carefully considered!

FM01 - Drag chute - While it is possible to deploy the drag chute, its effects are almost non-existent. Plan is to simulate it via the FSX flap controls
FM02 - Verify effectiveness of speed brake. SOLVED -> Roy fixed relevant code 07/03
FM03 - Coupled yaw during high-g high-speed turns.  -> SOLVED with new air file from Roy 08/03
FM04 - No G-limiter or Carefree Handling (this is a known issue - we have not implemented one in the simulation as we had no sound implementation)
FM05 - Potential improvement on takeoff/Landing figures in progress (vRAF/Roy).

EXTERNAL VISUAL MODEL
I believe the external visual model is relatively accurate. There are three visible mistakes to the trained eye: the nose cone is slightly less "circular" than the real one, the wing in reality is more twisted and the airbrake hinge is round in reality, while it has sharp edges on the borders in my model. I have tried to correct these, but most come from the original mesh I've started with...and fixing them created more issues than benefits...so we'll have to live with them.

EXT01 - FCS overreacts at AoA when the aircraft is still on the ground (animation only). FIXED on internal build 09/03
EXT02 - Landing gear stem animation has a weird angle during extension and retraction. -> SOLVED in the internal build. Gear animation sequence redone.
EXT03 - Minor light leakage on fueleage openings nearby the cockpit (not really much visible, but noticable in VR pre-flight inspection). -> Partial solution applied. Minor gaps due to mesh disalignment...difficult to recover. Create "gap filler" geometry so that the issue is not that visible anymore. 07/03
EXT04 - Light leakage in the main Landing gear pivot -> Fixed 3D model in internal build. 07/03
EXT05 - Request to smoothen the radar radome -> Minor tweak to radar radome geometry... not a big improvement, but still.... 07/03
EXT06 - Canards should be linked to speedbrake only on the ground -> SOLVED in internal build. Fixed animation code. 07/03 -> UPDATE 11/03...turns out from that it may not be true either. Canards are Always independent from speedbrake activation. FIXED
EXT07 - Landing Lights do not illuminate the ground -> SOLVED in internal build 07/03
EXT08  - Landing/Taxi light visible when gear is up -> Made it so that taxi/Landing lights are turned off if gear is up.
EXT09 - Request to revise inner pylons geometry. -> Fixed in internal build 10/03
EXT10 - Slats to deploy only depending on AoA -> Fixed in internal build 12/03

EXT11 - Request to improve the pointiness of the radome -> Attempt done...not sure if it looks really better, but still...11/03 - Changed radome shape in Beta1bis 15/03
EXT12 - Nose wheel does not rotate -> Fixed in internal build 10/03
EXT13 - Request to implement red anticollision
EXT14 - Fix squadron logo for german repaint -> Done 15/03
EXT15 - Create Spanish aicraft livery -> Done 15/03
EXT16 - Evaluate creation of Austrian livery
EXT17 - Evaluate creation of Saudi Arabia livery
EXT18 - Better color matching of pilot uniforms
EXT19 - Improve Brimstone Textures-> Done 23/03

VIRTUAL COCKPIT AND AVIONICS
Note that the VC is though to be "Cold and Dark" compatible. When the aicraft starts on the ground, several switches/avionics will be turned off. When it starts in the air, most (but not all) of the key switches will be set to ON.
Note also that clicking on the rear view mirrors in P3Dv3 will make them become reflective. Clicking on the stick will make it disappear. To make it appear again, click on the bolts of the pedestal.

VC01 - NAV/TAC soft key selection missing from the HSI page -> Fixed in build 24/03
VC02 - HUD Declutter can be improved -> Fixed in build 24/03
VC03 - Allow Aircraft refuel when on the ground through the FUEL page -> Implemented in build of 23/03
VC04 - Allow Weapons configuration from the STOR page when on the ground -> Implemented in build of 23/03
VC05 - Emergency IFF controls don't work -> FIXED 23/03
VC06 - Initialization and "ready for takeoff" conditions must be perfected -> Improved 23/03 
VC07 - Park brake switch activates Smokewinders when on the ground (it is meant to work only in the air). -> SOLVED in internal build. Smoke system behaves as intended now: smoke is either trigged by the VRS Trigger or by the Brakes control if not on the ground.
VC08 - Fuel flow indications not working -> SOLVED in internal build. Typo on MFD3 code. 06/03
VC09 - HUD still reports the IAS -> SOLVED, replaced with equivalent airspeed. 08/03
VC10 - Make ladder non-retractable without weight-on-wheels. Ladder now auto-retracts with weight off wheels. 23/03
VC11 - Check mouse areas alignment on some buttons

VC12 - Some buttons can be operated only once? Need investigation - Likely to be the same issue as VC15
VC13 - IRST/FLIR button graphic is shifted when activating IRST -> SOLVED on current build 10/03
VC14 - Reversionary instruments panel is improperly labeled "Missile Launch Button" - Fixed in the internal build
VC15 - Request to Always confirm selections with ENTER key on DEK - FIXED on build 11/03, also, many improvements and bug fixes to DEK.
VC16 - Request to code proper RAD1 / RAD 2 switchology (at least for the battery gangbar)

VC17 - Canopy open/close button is in an incorrect position (but no clear photo available of the actual location) - Remodeled area. Fixed 10/03
VC18 - MASS positions are reversed (ARM should be outward) - Fixed in the internal build 09/08
VC19 - Check RADALT against the flight manual

VC20 - Transonic warning at 0.97 M not at 0.99 - Fixed in the internal build 09/08
VC21 - 5000ft voice warning is not present in current Eurofighter versions. - Removed from build 24/03
VC22 - Reflex of anticollision lights red (why not white)?
VC23 - Request to add countdown
VC24 - Cannot get back to the root menu once selected one item in CHKLST mode - Checked, current implementation seems correct. By deselecting the SEL button, the page reverts back to main menu.
VC25 - Check autopilot functionality
VC26 - Transponder mode A has no 0 digit - Fixed, graphical issue only. 10/03
VC27 - Some mouse areas cause a FSX crash (only one report on FSX-SE so far) - evaluating replacement of 2D Mouse Areas with 3D. FIXED - the applied fix seems to work.
VC28 - A/S and XMIT caps not lit  -> Solved on current build 09/03
VC29 - Pedestal panel to lit -> Solved on current build 09/03
VC30 - NVE switch can cause CTD on FSX:SE on some installations -> SOLVED on current build 09/03
VC31 - Barometric pressure change to show only for 5 secs (currently 10) -> SOLVED on current build 10/03
VC32 - Cannot add a new WP until Direct-to route is present
VC33 - AT not operational

VC34 - Request to add scroll system for Low Height
VC35 - Flickering Speedbrake animation from VC - Fixed, animation glitch. 10/03
VC36 - Pitot tube icing - Fixed, pitot tube Always on. 15/03
VC37 - Master Starter switch has incorrect animation
VC38 - Check Velocity Vector diamond behavior

VC39 - FUEL page has some flaws. Center tank should only display if external tank is mounted, refuel probe icon is incorrect. SOLVED - Fixed in current build,
VC40 - HSI compass rose to appear over map view, if map is invoked (note: the current rendition is correct for early T1 software releases)

VC41 - Add ZOOM+/ZOOM- functions to PA format - FIXED on 26/03
VC42 - Slow Refuel rate (need to be redone on F-35 too) - FIXED - Greatly increased fuel transfer rate.
VC43 - ATTACK format does not return to VS once format is changed. - FIXED on 26/03
VC44 - LASER ACTIVE crossairs missing from LDP page. - FIXED 15/03
VC45 - Laser designation was not selectable by the user as intedend - FIXED 15/03
VC46 - HSI HDG bug not properly centered - FIXED 23/03
VC47 - Taxi/Landing light switch position is reversed - FIXED 24/03
VC48 - TFLIR Image shows even if gimbal limited or masked 
VC49 - Implement selective jettison/tank jettison/emergency jettison - IMPLEMENTED 27/03

TACPACK AND WEAPON SYSTEM FUNCTIONALITY
Note that as for many European aircrafts, there are two safety switches that need to be "ON" before releasing a weapon. The Master Armament Safety Switch (MASS knob on the right console, three positions: SAFE, STANDBY and ARM) is controlled either in the VC or by pressing control+alt+A. The Late Arm Safe safety is on the stick, and can be operated by either clicking the button in the VC or with control+A.

TP01 - Laser Guided Bombs may fail to hit the target in some circumstances. Root cause not identified yet. -> Minor bug apparently fixed. LGBs seem to hit target now. Reports from testers that buddy-lasing seems to work.

TP02 - Meteor does not follow targets. Identified major bug in Tacpack code, A/S system tried to load GPS coordinates on any seeker including missiles. Hence the missile seeker dropped the radar track slaved mode. It affected all the missiles. Potentially affects also the latest F-35 release. SOLVED on current build 10/03.
TP03 - Flare dispensing direction is incorrect. Fixed in the current model 16/03
TP04 - Request to add Brimstone. Added 23/03
TP05 - Storm Shadow fins should be retracted. Fixed in the current model 10/03.
TP06 - Request to make STA5-6 and 8-9 independent.
TP07 - Request to add data cartridge functionality
TP08 - Check DASS system (apparently display not working in RMHHD)
TP09 - Radar detection range is currently linked to A-A missile selected. Request to change it. Implemented 26/03


SOUND
Another great job by Serge Luzin!

SND01 - Request to improve the switch sounds -> Implemented alternate switch sounds.
SND02 - Fuel Boost Pump Switch have default noisy sounds. Request to change them.

OTHER
Misc01 - External tanks and CFTs are not replenished in the configurator
Misc02 - CFTs cannot be unloaded in the configurator -> SOLVED in internal build. Reworked configurator code. Loads can now be deselected individually. 07/03
Misc03 - Manual is still missing some images and weapon information
Misc04 - Configuration file was missing the descriptions. -> SOLVED in the internal build.Misc05 - GBU-10 non deselectable in configurator -> SOLVED in the current internal build

89 comments:

Toby said...

Great start on the manual, Dino! Has an authentic military format - systems look outstanding.

Toby said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sammy said...

Looking good Dino. The manual has a similar feel to the military manuals I read on a day to day basis at work. I have one minor typo that I found but I will email that to you directly for your next release version. Looking forward to this one!

Owen PS said...

Hey Dino, the flight dynamics are really well done, but I think i noticed a little bug, when I deployed the spoiler, the canards went down to the idle position

Chris Eells said...

I am also noticing that the spoiler is not very effective; it deploys, but seems to cause no drag. Any one else experiencing this?

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Chris... I think you are right. Putting it on the list for verification.

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Owen - I have fixed the bug. They are supposed to do that on the ground.

Chris Eells said...

Landing / Taxi light seems to be inop. All other lighting checks good, looks good!

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Chirs - noted, landing lights are always Tricky... apparently fixed in my build.

김선우 said...

Is it within reason to make a model request for an aircraft?

Daniele said...

Hi Dino, few things after the first pleasant hours of flight:
- Ladder deploy is possible during flight. I suppose that IRL there it should be a safe mechanism connected with Weight On Wheels.
- Hook and similar button sensible area is not perfectly centered on the buttons itself.
- Smoke effect linked with brakes also on ground
- Air refuel probe animation is probably just a little bit too fast than the real thing.
- Buttons sounds too loud (IMO)
- Landing lights (small points) visible in flight, with gear up.
BTW thank you for the amazing work already done!!! Keep it up!

Daniele

Owen PS said...

small details that are easy to miss.
- The parachute handle is not clickable.
- The joystick once hidden, can not be retracted.
- Some buttons, once clicked are unable to redo the action for example the waypoint selector
- The switch's to swap over the MFD's are not clickable. (I thought some people would like this feature)

But apart from that I have done 9 hours in the Typhoon and loving it!

Thanks Dino for this epic creation!

Daniele said...

Edit my previous post:
- not Landing lights, but TAXI lights are visible, in flight, with gear up.
- Smoke effect linked with brakes also on ground (sorry, you already solved it, I read it now)

Thanks, bye

Owen PS said...

The strobe light on the top reflects through to the cockpit, its kinda off putting. If you look into the ejection seat you can see the flash, it lights up the bar where the mirrors lay on.

Dino Cattaneo said...

@ 김선우 - Sorry I do not take requests. It takes more than one year to develop an aicraft...and since this is not my main job, I am only doing the aicrafts I like. But I listen to suggestions.

@Daniele
- Ladder: good suggestion.
- Mouse area alignment: I'll check what I can do...probably not much as the mouse areas come from different sources (3D and 2D gauge - the latter to make the button change appearance)
- Refuel probe animation: rejected... actually the EF-2000 fuel probe retraction is very fast!
- Buttons and sounds: noted...but I am not sure I agree.
- Taxi/Landing light: I'll see what I can do...

@Owen PS
- Drag chute is not implemented yet
- You should be able to make the stick appear again by clicking on the bolts in the pedestal
- Could you please provide a list of the buttons that do that?
- MHDD swap not implemented (as per my manual) to save memory and frame rates.
- Strobe light... I'll see what I can do

Thanks guys! I see you are enjoying it!

김선우 said...

@Dino Cattaneo Darn.... Well, I can dream. lol

Andrew Cade said...

For some reason, when on P3D Profesional Plus and FSX, when entering numbers for IAS, HDG, Alt the screen goes black after two/three button presses on the number pad.

Andrew Cade said...

I also noticed FSX has no voice warnings unlike P3D? Not sure if it's just me

Chris Eells said...

Sounds good. It is an impressive system / model.

Daniele said...

Hello Dino, other few notes:
- In the checklist sub-pages it's not possible to select the root main checklist selection page.
- HUD BRT control doesn't seem to work;
- With anticollision lights on (external colour white), the internal flashing reflex are red;
- About the DEK, the input data disappears without the needed validation by the ENT key.
- The stopwatch works flawlessy as countup; is it possible to implement the useful countdown function?
- Lamp test actually not working.
Have a good evening, best regards!

nepher99 said...

Hi Dino,

on fsx (steam edition):

Autopilot issues:

-inserting heading on the DEK: it activates after the third digit without waiting the enter button.
-inserting altitude on the DEK is totally ineffective.
-inserting vertical rate on the DEK is totally ineffective

-on the ground while the smokes goes (i know u fixed it), flaps, slats and ailerons are flickering)

-Each time i use the SSK (expecially xprd button)and plays around a little causes an application freeze (pc restart needed, steam still sees the program running after a forced closure)

-transponder A mode to insert with the DEK has the 0 digit missing (only 1 to 7 instead of 0 to 7)

for the moment that's it... still didn't land once, always freezes before. Next flight will be totally vfr, so we'll see.

-Start up sequence is a little weird, just one switch for a 2 enjine? cutting off the start button just shuts off both enjines, there's a bit off mess with all the buttons in start up area, cutting out the switch above the start up switch just shuts one enjine...

-idle us really too high, the planes moves at idle if the brakes ar not engaged... it shouldn't

i'll write more as far as i find out



Dino Cattaneo said...

@Andrew/Daniele -> currently the DEK is programmed so that when the required digits are entered it automatically enters the data and closes the window. It would make more sense to add ENTER to confirm, I agree.

@Andrew -> Make sure you have voice warnings activated (first switch of the second row of the battery gangbar)

@Daniele

-> Checklist (I will check)
-> BRT actually, none of the HUD control will work in the current implementation (this was done to save some memory)
-> Reflex of anticollision light, I will check
-> Countdown... I will see. Not a priority
-> Lamp test not working -> correct, this is not implemented: but in general please remind that only the functions documented in the manual should work. All the other will not.

thanks!

Dino

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Nepher

As for the autopilot issue, are you entering the data after the autopilot mode is engaged? Engagement of autopilot mode is only for

Slat/flap flickering see issue number FM01

Unknown issue - this really should not happen (nor it seems to happen to other users...not sure what is causing this)

Transponder A mode (noted easy fix)

As far as I understand the sequence is correct, meaning the engine will start if their LP cock (L/R) is open and if their throttle is not set to stop in reality (starter is linked to the throttle)

Idle too high... maybe, but I quite like the overall engine envelope so I am not keen on changing it.

Chris Eells said...

Testing in p3dv3....
Flew instrument approaches in the weather, had pitot tube freeze up on me. Not seeing mention of pitot heat in manual, nor could i find it in cockpit. Is it implemented? Had to use key command. If the switch is there, i appologize, if not.... maybe it should be on all the time? Loosing airspeed indicator on short final is not fun.

As previous tester commented, would be nice to input frequency with xxx.xx Enter, vs xxx.xxxxx. understand if it is not a priority.

I am unable to load fuel into external wing tanks by hitting 'refuel' in the configurator. Center-line fuel tank works fine. Could just be my system, happens on the F35 Too. I end up having to manually add fuel to those tanks in the fuel and payload menu option.

Very impressed thus far. You have a winner on your hands. Looking forward to testing it in multiplayer next week with other testers.

nepher99 said...

@Dino,

-regarding the freeze and start up switches issues if u want i can make a short video and send it to you via mail (don't worry i'll compress it) so you can see on your own what happens ;)

-regarding autopilot issue yes, i enter commands while autopilot is engaged, as it's intended to be used when receiving instructions by the atc

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Nepher - no need for that. But I have one question: does it happen when you use the SSK (i.e. A/S, XMIT etc.) or also with the Moding keys and keypad? Can you operate the MFDs? I am puzzled as everything is programmed in the same way - and it works fine here both in FSX-SE and P3D.

Daniele said...

Dino, I've found a photo showing the location of the canopy open switch:
http://i.imgur.com/sBjGEDq.jpg

Bye


nepher99 said...

@dino
it happens only with the SSK, no problem with all the other keys (issues already reported apart, but no crash or freeze with anything else)

Andrew Cade said...

I'm having issues with A/G bombing. It could be me as I have not really done any A/S.

When I set a flight from EGXC, over Donna Nook with a TACPACK SAM site enabled, I enter the co-ordinates through PP ENTR key however it doesn't seem to show anything on the HUD when flying over the SAM site. Help / Guidance on A/S would be great.

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Daniele
Thanks.

@nepher99
Thanks. I really don't know what is happening but the problem seems confined to your case. I had a similar (unexplained) issue during development on another key. I will try to reroute all the Mouse Areas to the 3D model. I think there may be occasions in which the engine may have issues with mixed 2D/3D mouse controls.

@Andrew
I am sorry for the lack of documentation... the A/S procedures in the Eurofighter are a mix between real life Eurofighter and VRS Tacpack generic implementation.
Long story short, assuming an LGB10 is loaded, You should:
- Select A/S mode
- For a PP attack, enter the coordinates as you did
- Select PP option (otherwise nothing will show on the HUD, awaiting for a TOO). LPD should also show the target.
- Select the intended release mode

Anonymous said...

Hi Dino!

People are reporting bugs faster than I'm finding them, but I do have one extra one for you regarding the airbrake as seen from the VC. When selected to deploy, it "flickers" in place rather than extending and retracting as per the external model.

More to follow as I work through the systems but so far it's a brilliant bit of work once again! :)

Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim

김선우 said...

Ever heard of the Xian MA60? Turboprop Chinese airliner good airplane.....

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@김선우

Yes, I saw your comments on this blog and elsewhere. It seems a great Aircraft, however I do not take requests, as I explained previously. Aside, your comment is off-topic, this post is meant to collect feedback from the Typhoon Beta 1 testing.

김선우 said...

@ScimmiaSpaziale

oh yeah.... their next project??? MA60 Turbprop PW127J engines nice sound.... ATR 42-300/320 series and ATR 72–200/210 series have 4 blade similar sound this...

Daniele said...

Two or three minor issues:
a) Back of the pilot ejection seat, there's a small difference with some images I've found on the web, please see following pictures:
https://s24.postimg.org/y8gik9hwl/5260358167_63104a9d42_b.jpg
https://s24.postimg.org/cak1qh2w5/9388093008_9adbbf3128_k.jpg

b) Retroillumination of System Mode Display Panel is too bright and difficult to read at night. Please correct the name of the same panel, at page 22 of the manual (instead of System MODEL Display Panel)
https://s10.postimg.org/g85h3tmrd/2017_3_10_18_41_41_899.png

c) Don't know the exact functionality of the real stuff, but the internal lights are actually available also with battery turned off.

Thanks once again for your patience and meticulous work!!!

Dino Cattaneo said...

@김선우 once again I am sorry but you are off topic. Then, my next project will be a SIAI-S211, please see the relevant updates on this blog, and leave this thread for the Eurofighter Beta. Thanks for your understanding.

@Daniele

A) Cockpit back - minor detail. I'll put that on the list and then we'll see.

B) Strange...it illuminates correctly on my system, it is much darker... I'll investigate.

C) That is because the plane is using default FSX light system. It should not be like this in reality...but it is a very low priority change IMHO.

김선우 said...

@Dino Cattaneo

oh no... why my are off topic??

김선우 said...

@Dino Cattaneo

so last next project??

Drew Bolton said...

Ok- INITIAL Beta feedback, broken into sections:

Test Platform: FSX Steam Edition with Steve's DX10 Fixer + Cloud Shadows
Test Location: KTPH (Tonopah Airport, NV- elev. +5000 ft MSL), ASN set for clear weather.
Test Times: 1200 local, 1500 local, 1600 local.

External-

1- When the engines are on, parking brake on (or just wheel brakes held), doing an engine run up causes the flaperons to "jiggle", as if set to flaps 2 then no flaps repeatedly. The phenomenon only happens when at a standing stop. This also affects slats, they extend and retract repeatedly and instantly.

2- Unable to locate taxi or landing lights. The model shows where they are, but they are not illuminating at all. I used the keyboard shortcut for ALL LIGHTS, and was unable to see the sprites for the landing lights at all. All other lights (except red beacon) function normally.

3- Flaperons setting 1 and 2 do not appear to have any visual counterpart in the exterior model. I can use the joystick to change their positions, but setting flaps with the standard shortcuts does not appear to have a visual change. It does however affect the flight dynamics. The audio gives the impression that something is moving, but nothing moves.

4- Canards deflection seems a little too extreme. Gently pitching up and down, looking from the front, the canards seem fine. Pulling the stick halfway back almost instantly flips the canards down, even at high speeds (I could see low speeds where there is not enough airflow). Pushing the stick all the way forward has the same effect. Canards in the "speedbrake" position.

5- Rudder ineffectual on the ground(?) Not sure if this is a bug or common Eurofighter behavior. I do a controls wipeout before taxiing, and full rudder deflection seems less than when in the air. Nosewheel steering deflects properly however. Rudder functions at takeoff speeds.

Drew Bolton said...


Flight Handling-

(Note- Initial tests at KTPH- elevation +5000 ft. Next tests will be at KNQX- elevation 5 ft.)


1- (This could be part of the actual jet) Flaperon setting two requires a lot of throttle to remain airborne, let alone maintain approach speed. In my initial circuits, I had to land in Flaps 1 because Flaps 2 was difficult to compensate for. Tried again with flaps two and had to keep the throttle to full military power to keep her on the glide slope at 12 - 14 AOA. During this time AOA creeps up, as keeping it close to level will result in instant drop from altitude.

2- Aileron rolls (with or without rudder input) at maneuvering speed (+300 kts) a little slow. Tried in two scenarios. Scenario one with no weather, STD baro, and scenario 2 with high pressure, winds, clouds, same area. With weather was less maneuverable as expected, but during calm weather, responsiveness seemed sluggish. (This could be due to high elevation as well, and may not be a proper bug)
***NOTE- I have no idea what the proper responsiveness should be, and am comparing to other aircraft I have flown in FSX, most notably, Tomcat***


Internal-

1- Voice system announces altitude twice, if at high altitude airport, while parked. This happens immediately after flipping the switch for the voice system on.
***Note- My test area of KTPH is at 5429 feet MSL. My next tests will be done at KNQX (5 ft. MSL).

2- Generator switches have no associated sounds.

3- Right MFD Checklist typo- PRE TAXY. Should be PRE-TAXI.

4- APU button. I am unclear as to what this actually does. It does not appear to hinder startup if not depressed. It is not affected with common FSX shortcut for engine start. No sounds are generated once it is pressed.

5- Master start switch does not move to on position if FSX keyboard shortcut for engine start is used. Clicking the switch results in the engines turning off, but the switch remains in the off position. Clicking again results in engine turning on, but switch does move to ON position.


This is all I have for the initial tests. Smokewinder bug was disabled by "//commenting out" the responsible lines in the aircraft.cfg.

Next test series will involve tacpak, to run through all systems, and will be performed at a sea level airbase.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@김선우 - I thought it was clear you were (and still are) off topic. This is a thread about the Eurofighter 2000 testing, and your comments are not about it. As for my next project, I have replied above and, once again, it is going to be the SIAI-S211.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Drew

Flight model

1 - Actually there is no pilot-selectable flap setting. The flap system (unused by the eurofighter) is being prepared to be used as drag chute.

2 - Maybe... unfortunately the Eurofighter flight model is still classified.

Intrnal
1 - I have to revise the 5k voice alert, it seems not to be present in the latest software of the real plane. BTW all Category 4 warnings play twice.

2 - That is because I am using standard FSX Mouse Areas associations

3 - Not sure this is correct. The real world Eurofighter RAF checklist reports "TAXY" which I understand it is an uncommon, but valid, British English word. I spotted this while writing the code and left the "y" to make it sound british ;-)

4 - APU button is associated to basic FSX-APU...which basically means it does nothing. As for other Keys, I made it operable for procedural reasons.

5 - Will check that. At the moment, however, it is using standard FSX code.

NOTE:

As for Tacpack, please read the issue found so far (especially TP02) - the build you have is erratic in A-A radar slaving.

James Donaldson-Webster said...

Regarding the crash on button presses (VC30), I am using FSX Acceleration and I have had this a few times, once was on pressing the FLIR and another on the NVE button and sometimes when i lock a new radar target using enter. Sometimes if i wait a while the Not responding message goes and flight resumes but other times it results in a crash to desktop.

Owen PS said...

Im not sure if its just my machine but when i click the designated switch on my throttle quadrant for the spoilers, the spoilers do not react and when I press "/" i have to press it 2 or 3 times for the spoilers to deploy, also would it be possible to have a standard typhoon load-out e.g. 1000 litre wing tanks, 2 SRAAM's and 4 BVRAAM's because the sidewinders are nice but arent that nice when your doing a display. also it would be really cool if you added the fuel trail for "dump fuel" from the tail like the typhoon does in real life, like with your F-35's you had the fuel jettisoned from the wing.

James Donaldson-Webster said...
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James Donaldson-Webster said...

Owen, I have had this to, but thought it may just be my throttle, but this makes me think not.

Also just had a second crash to desktop when pressing the NVE Button(FSX Acceleration).

Daniele said...

Trying a flight-plan created from the main P3D menù, there are some things that doesn't seem to korw properly (AFAIK):
- M key doesn't change the standard configuration of MFDs (left MFD radar B-Scope, Center MFD PA format, Right MFD Elevation format)
- by clicking on NXT WPT and PREV WPT I can see the different waypoint selected on the Waypoint page, but can't see change the steering cursor of the HUD
- can't find the DEL WP button in order to delete a certain waypoint.

Other suggestions (with lowest priorities):
- It would be nice to have a fuel/payload configurator for the users that doesn't own TacPack;
- It would be nice to have an ECM decoy animation (deploy/rewind);
- It would be nice to have the NAV/BCN lights reflections on the ground;
- It would be nice to have a ground equipment for the static display.

Finally, I've tried to test the limits of the aircraft itself and found it very close to what is publicly known (max height 56.000 ft, max speed 1.85 Mach, 30.000 ft in about 1'30" after brake release).
Great job, Dino! ;)

Dino Cattaneo said...

@James Donaldson Webster
- The new build is more stable, although technically the code was not doing anything "wrong" the mouse areas had strange issues with FSX.

@Owen PS
- As for the spoiler, I am sorry but I cannot replicate the issue
- Standard configuration: more configurations will be added through MFD3 selection
- AFAIK, the typhoon does not have a fuel dump system https://theaviationist.com/tag/fuel-dumping/

@Daniele
- M key not working: it should always work in VC views...strange issue. But actually the M key does only change the PoF.
- WPT steering: was the steering set to GPS?
- DEL WPT should be in the SWP SSK, but it is not working due to a bug.

As for your suggestions:
- No TP for loadout....noted but it will not happen. Reason is that configurator without TP required additional external dll which I do not want to add for compatibility reasons.
- ECM decoy and ground equipment was not included to save memory (for new weapons)
- NAV/BCN reflections...will look into that.

...the flight model is Roy's work... not mine! He did a great job indeed.

Toby said...

Dino, I confirm Dean Crawford's note on the speed brake just flickering in place when deployed, as seen from within the VC. External view animation is fine.

On Chris' point about wing external fuel tanks not filling: I was able to fill them by using the P3D's fuel/load management interface built into the sim menu. ideally, of course, this function would be performed by your ACM, with maybe a slider to allow fuel load adjustments other than 0 or 100% in each tank.

Chris Eells said...

Comment about sound.... when turning on the fuel boost pumps, i get the default fsx fuel pump sound.... rather loud and annoying (and noticeably default). May improve immersion if that sound is removed or substituted. I doubt it sounds like that in the jet.

Will be testing multiplayer with toby tonight.

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Toby
The speedbrake was mapped to the incorrect animation in the VC - fixed now.

As for the fuel, the comment was indeed that it was not possible to fill them through the configurator.

@Chris

Agree about the fuel boost pump... annoying. I will see what I can do.

Daniele said...

What about to organize a multiplayer session, between beta testers?
If somebody knows an easy way to do that, please share with us the necessary informations.
Thanks, bye

Toby said...

@Daniele

Would be great. First step might be to get everyone's time zones, and arrive at common workable time window.

@Dino

Three of us conducted multiplayer (MP) test last night in P3Dv3 w/ TacPack:

1) Flight controls and CFT's are "mirroring", all else is not mirroring - excellent for MP usage, just needs a couple more fixes.

2) Radar detection range of air targets appears too short - being limited to selected missile's max range? Targets not detected until within maybe 38nm.

Good stuff: we were able to buddy- and self-lase for good LGB hits, manually load each other's HMD-generated TOO coordinates for successful JDAMS hits. All guided perfectly for bullseyes. Meteor and AIM-132 guided perfectly - just need radar detection range moved out to actual range of radar, not limited by weapons selected.

Toby said...

One more issue:

None of us appeared to have working RWR (DASS?), could not detect each other's radars.

Toby said...

@Roy

Flight model is highly conducive to rock-solid, precision control in close formation flight. Thank you for ensuring this quality is present in the FDE. Greatly expands the potential usage of this model in TP / tactical scenarios.

김선우 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Toby said...

@ 김선우

Dino has been very patient, going back and forth with you on this blog. He's told you what his next project is, and has told you this area is just for those helping to test/develop his Eurofighter Typhoon. Perhaps there is a language barrier, which is resulting in you being slow to understand.

It's great that you are interested in his projects, but you need to head over to some of the other areas to make your future comments. You're effectively soaking up energy here that could slow down our progress.

Share your good ideas and thoughts on Dino's site, but STAY OFF THIS CHANNEL.

Daniele said...

@Toby: my time zone is GMT+1 (Italy).

@김선우: stop it with your off topic questions!!!

Toby said...

@Daniele: I'm the farthest away from you in our MP group, GMT-7 (Los Angeles). Is 2000Z workable for you any day of the week, or too late?

Toby said...

Dino, weapon suggestion: can we add dumb a bomb option to loadout (Mk82, Mk84 or both)? Would be nice for users to be able to use the simple CCIP manual mode without being required to learn laser and GPS systems. There are many in the sim community who will love dropping simple iron bombs from the Typhoon, and the added smart bomb technology would be a barrier to their enjoyment.

Toby said...

On earlier analysis of roll rate: I think Typhoon instantaneous roll rate is about 250 deg / second, roughly the same as F-16's 240 deg / second. Current model seems to do that on my system. I think a number of sim settings can materially affect this.

Chris Eells said...

@Daniele -- I am GMT - 4, and available much of this week. I am also available most of the days that Toby is; would be great to get a flight with you. We had a great time testing multiplayer last night. We just need to figure out a way to get in contact with you without giving out our contact info here.

@Dino -- I will add to Toby's comments, that the speed-brake also mirrored in multiplayer; but overall, it was a great formation platform and besides the mirroring, things worked well. I too would like to see the possibility for a dumb bomb.

I could not figure out a way to cycle through or select air to air weapons without using the W key -- perhaps I'm missing something. I was also not able to pickle off the Storm Shadow munition -- all other guided ordinance came off and tracked properly.

Lastly, was there a change to the flight dynamics on the updated beta? We had to rotate to 20 degrees nose up for takeoff last night, and on landing it also had a very high AOA. Felt uncomfortable, where before it felt perfect. Recovered clean with 1kg of fuel.

Again, beautiful work,

Chris

Toby said...

Regarding Chris' point about high AOA on landing and takeoff: in the current build, my flaps never deploy - only slats. Probably explains the excessive AOA. I see your guide states 12 deg AOA on approach, 14 deg over the threshold, which the flaps would probably facilitate.

Sammy said...

Another great addition Dino. Been testing her for about a week now and loving it. I see some great insight from the other testers and have noticed what they all are talking about. This will be a masterful addition to all military aviation inventories on all platforms.

김선우 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James Donaldson-Webster said...

A small note on the Weapons Configurator, on the new release all stores are de selectable except the GBU-10 which is not deselectable - not a major problem just a note.

Daniele said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Toby said...

Got it, Daniele - thanks, and delete your post!

Daniele said...

Perfect! ;)

Returning to the Beta1 version, I've noticed too that flight dinamycs during takeoff and landing are different, much more tricky. Well done on the DEK response.
Still remains some problems with the autopilot/autothrottle, but you already know it.
Looking forward to test more in depth the other avionic parts and MP behavior with Toby and Chris!
Happy landings to all!

Dino Cattaneo said...

Hi guys,

still away from home - sorry for the lack of support.
Miscellaneous comments:

- Missile detection range: yes it is currently linked to the missile selected, although the plan was to allow the user to be able to select it

- Dumb bombs: sorry it will not happen. The external visual model is already way too big, and space has been allocated for Stormshadow and Brimstone weapon systems. BTW they will not be present but not useable in the retail build.

- DASS not working... not sure why, I'll have to check

- Changes to the flight model: well, actually thing is that Beta1 had a maneuvering flap system (2 positions) which was not meant to be there, and made the landing and takeoffs much easier... the original plan was to use the flap system as drag-generator for the drag-chute (which is partially implemented in Beta1bis)... The Typhoon has not pilot-selectable flap system. BTW do not look at the animations in the external model....which are just animations. So the flap entries in the aicraft.cfg were probably due to a misunderstanding between me and Roy...I am clarifying this with him.



Toby said...

@Dino - there will be some sort of flap effect (auto-flaps) added to the Typhoon? Ozzy and I flew it again in MP last night, and it's a bear to get airborne and land, with 20 deg nose up required. I'm pretty sure you intend to add that back in, just want to be clear.

DASS: I did see Ozzy's AI radar on the scope intermittently. Came and went without apparent logic, but it is there at least. As I think Chris noted prior, SAM radars do appear.

Chris Eells said...

Went out and did some mid-air refueling with Toby tonight; system works, but very low fuel transfer rate. It looked like we were getting 12 kg per minute of AR; that equals about 30lbs per minute -- needs to be increased. I'm a real-world tanker pilot, and I can't remember the average flow rate for a drogue set-up, but it should be around 1,500 lbs or 680kg. The VRS superbug is probably pretty accurate, and they take approx 1,700 lbs per min. I mention the superbug, because I think (in this instance) the limiting factor on the AR transfer rate is the probe and drogue setup, not the receiver aircraft.

Very much enjoying flying the Typhoon. However, the lack of the maneuvering flaps (or whatever the change was from previous beta) makes for some high-aoa flying in normal regimes.

Stefan M said...

I can confrim it's a pain to fly the typhoon at low speed without flaps (nice exercise though). Thought I was doing something wrong after finally understanding the cockpit. :P

Daniele said...

Other minor things to check/fix:

- Old canopy switch label is still in the wrong position.
- Transponder control buttons (right of the navigation reversionary instrument panel) are impossible to read in daylight. Right consolle labels are very difficult to read too.
- ALT HOLD function with the new Beta1 version has a strange "dolphin" path.
- B-Scope, select VS, then if you push the HUD button the page will go back to TWS.
- Had a strange deep stall beahvior, during high altitude, high AOA, low rpm.

Cheers

Toby said...

Question on metric versus ICAO standard measurement: the aviation world operates predominantly on nautical miles (distance/speed), feet (elevation/altitude/VV) and pounds (fuel, weight & balance) - does the real Typhoon use kilograms for fuel?

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@All

The .air file is being reworked to allow for a better Landing and T/O behavior. Please note that rotation speed indicated in the manual is too slow - it should be around 160kts.

@Daniele

Old canopy label - it is intentional: this is what I have seen on pictures from BAe (label but no switch).

Transponder controls - this is the same issue as VC05, those controls are not programmed yet

ALT HOLD - Actually, you should not experience any change in behavior below 250kts. Anyway this is the old FSX issue with standard autopilot: it is not good for fast jets.

B-SCOPE/VS - I'll see what I can do. Basically, the B-Scope is the default ATTACK format, so any change of format will revert to B-SCOPE.

Strange stall - in the end it is FSX

@Toby

Yes, Typhoon fuel weight is in kilograms.

Toby said...

@Dino: Will you apply this fix to the F-35 as well, so those missiles can track correctly?

"TP02 - Meteor does not follow targets. Identified major bug in Tacpack code, A/S system tried to load GPS coordinates on any seeker including missiles. Hence the missile seeker dropped the radar track slaved mode. It affected all the missiles. Potentially affects also the latest F-35 release. SOLVED on current build 10/03."

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Toby

Definitely - actually I meant to release a F-35 update as soon as the EF-2000 is finished.

Anonymous said...

Hi Dino,

Just an update on the flight model for you, which I know is already being tested and adjusted further. After some considerable testing, the main issue seems to be in the aircraft's standard AoA. Even during level flight the aircraft seems to be a little nose high. The velocity vector doesn't sit well with the nose pitch angle. This is especially noticeable in the take off and landing phases, where excessive AoA is required to maintain stable flight even at low landing weights.

The real-world Typhoon seems to land at around 130-150 KIAS maximum, based on my own observations at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire as well as various YouTube videos. The aircraft's large delta configuration should provide a lot of lift and a low wing loading, especially at low speeds.

Rotation speed at maximum weight shouldn't be much above 150 KIAS, maybe 160 tops but is currently 200 KIAS even when clean. This is a very long way off the mark - Typhoons in the circuit at Coningsby can fly extremely slowly as they climb out, albeit in clean configuration and low fuel weights for the OCU training curriculum.

The engine settings seem right ( obviously based only on comparison to other aircraft via videos ) so it must be something about the aerodynamics that's upsetting the low speed handling. Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Dean

Thanks - we already have a new flight model which seems much better in every respect.

Anonymous said...

Another couple of minor issues noted, not sure if this is a flaw or just the way things are these days:

1) AA missiles launch upward off the rail instead of being pushed down. It could be that they drop behind the aircraft and then the motors fire and they pull up and over but it happens very quickly.

2) In multiplayer using JoinFS, I was unable to obtain any radar tracks. I tried off line using TacPack, with a drone, but again was unable to detect anything. Probably something I'm missing but thought it worth mentioning.

Cheers,

Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim

Toby said...

Dean, I don't think joinfs is ready for prime time with TacPack. They are working on it, though. Recommend we stick with true P3Dv3 multiplayer environment for beta testing. We have a few servers, you are welcome to join us.

Daniele said...

About "multiplayer" sessions, I've noticed some minor "jump" when coming close to AI traffic registered with FSrecorder, but it's a thing that I can live with it ;)
I do ask if there're any other testers that have noticed a similar issue, since I don't think that is related with my hardware.
Thanks, goodbye

Toby said...

Correct, Daniele - we must use an older version of FSR (1.3?) and manually "force" it to run in newer versions of P3D. And most of us experience "jitter" of recorded aircraft when they are played back. The only guy I know who has a smooth experience is Chris, who is part of our Typhoon beta team. When he has time, I'm hoping we can learn his settings and achieve smoothness.

Until then, JoinFS is a good alternative - but just for flying formation practice, not beta testing. It has limitations that were detailed recently in this blog, and we won't be helping Dino if we report bugs we discover in JoinFS - they may have nothing to do with the Typhoon model. I understand JoinFS is being actively improved for P3Dv3, and I'm very interested in using it as soon as it is fully developed.

Anonymous said...

@ Toby

Thanks for the offer! However, having been unable to detect targets in JoinFS I then started a Free Flight with TacPack on and spawned a drone. I wasn't able to detect that on radar either, despite closing in on it from 10nm astern and eventually shooting it down with guns. Weapons are all live and armed, AA mode selected, radar TWS at various ranges. Am I missing something? Is everybody else able to detect AA targets and launch weapons against them?

@Dino

Your excellent F-35 radar works fine in JoinFS I believe but will ask the chaps for confirmation.

Dean Crawford, OCPR, MODsim

Toby said...

@ Dean:

Earlier in this blog, we had identified that the radar limits its detection range to that of the selected weapon. For your test, you'd need to have the target within the missile's range before you'd see the target on the scope. Is this possibly causing your "not detected" state?

For example, if I select Meteor, then set a target at 60nm, it will not appear on the scope.

If this is your situation, then Dino's on it - full radar range detection will probably be in next build.

Dino Cattaneo said...

Hi guys:

a couple of notes on the radar thing.

- The current Beta1bis radar has a bug, so that basically it is locked to 40Nm range if a missile is selected. In the next implementation, it will default at 60Nm but can be adjusted with RNG+ and RNG- controls in the attack page. This will be fixed in the new build. Note that FSX / P3D have a limit (which I think it is about 80Nm...but I could be wrong) so that traffic outside that range is "non-existent" and cannot be detected.

- Also, unless a missile is selected, if the radar is powered, it defaults to STANDBY mode (i.e. you have to set it to RADIATE in the XMIT page)

- The Typhoon has a strictly Tacpack only radar (i.e. it relies only on data provided by Tacpack - the F-35 TSD, on the other hand, interrogates the FSX/P3D radar database).

BR

Dino

Toby said...

@Dino:

Radar range: the Aerosoft F-14X has radar range of 200nm, can detect and engage aerial targets. Don't know how they are doing it, but it does work. I'm hoping there is a way to achieve actual Typhoon radar range, but of course 80nm will be a great improvement. Looks like you're modifying radar function to make it an excellent tool. Control over radiation (on/off) will be critical in a live adversary TacPack session.

Looks like you've addressed the vast majority of issues in the coming build - when can we expect to see that released, Dino? It is going to be beautiful with all the fixes!

Dino Cattaneo said...

@Toby

Maybe I was wrong about the actual FSX/P3D "event-horizon" - I do not recall the exact figure. But there is a limit after which FSX/P3D ignores the traffic (maybe it does not apply to multiplayer aircraft).

Anyway, in its current rendition, the Typhoon defaults to 80Nm and can go up to 140Nm (and down to 10Nm). If Tacpack can see a target it will be detected.

As I will not have much time in the next few weeks, I have decided to release a "go-nogo" Beta 2 test version in the next few days... I will release the Typhoon as soon as the Beta 2 "works".