As I normally do, here is a post to collect feedback from the S-211 Beta Testing.
Recipents of the Beta version please bear in mind that the main focus of the package is the SIAI S-211... the Aermacchi M-311/M-345 model is provided as a "bonus" as it was relatively quick for me to do it, and I thought it was a nice glimpse to provide a glimpse of the future of this machine...but, because of that and because the real aicraft is still in development, the M-311/M-345 has a number of artistic licences. However the main focus of the test should be the S-211.
The preferred method to provide feedback is by posting a comment on this blog, so that others can see it. Alternatively you can send me an email. I do not need to release it shortly, so it is not a time-trial...
Take you time - please do not send feedback before having logged few hours on this aircraft.
Below are drawings for the aicraft general arrangement, takeoff and landing procedures.
Last, if you find an issue please try to replicate it, be as accurate as you can and specify if it applies to the Whole package, to the S-211, to the M-311/M-345 or to the M-345 HET.
As I usually do issues are classified and color coded as follows:
RED - major issues that severely impact the fun, functionality and quality of the package
YELLOW - issues that have a significant impact on the quality of the package, but not deal-breakers
GREEN - observations, minor issues or resolved issues.
BLUE - comments, suggestions or request for improvements
SIAI MARCHETTI S-211 PACKAGE ISSUE LIST
Last updated: 13/01/2018
Visual Model:
EXT01 - Speedbrake animation too fast, should be 4s to extend and 2.5 to retract (currently 0.5s)
EXT02 - Oxy masks and helmets still visible when pilot figures are toggles (happens only in FSX) - FIXED, bug found in material definition so that it did not follow the animation of the skeleton. As side note, the error had no impact to P3Dv4.
EXT03 - Check position of rotation beacon light - As per flight manual, no rotating beacon is present. However, strobe lights on wingtips were missing and have been added.
EXT04 - Check position of rear light - Fixed position, was 0.1ft higher due to a typo in config.
EXT05 - Check color match of M-345 HET livery (wingtips should be red, grey tones slightly darker). Fixed 03/01/2018
EXT06 - Fixed minor bug preventing external lights to show in M-345
EXT07 - Request for option to animate helmet visor.
EXT08 - Added mouse areas to external model (only in P3D): ejection seat will toggle pilot figures, external cockpit handle now works, remove before flight flags can collectively be toggles (would be nice if it was done individually... a possibility for the future!)
EXT01 - Speedbrake animation too fast, should be 4s to extend and 2.5 to retract (currently 0.5s)
EXT02 - Oxy masks and helmets still visible when pilot figures are toggles (happens only in FSX) - FIXED, bug found in material definition so that it did not follow the animation of the skeleton. As side note, the error had no impact to P3Dv4.
EXT03 - Check position of rotation beacon light - As per flight manual, no rotating beacon is present. However, strobe lights on wingtips were missing and have been added.
EXT04 - Check position of rear light - Fixed position, was 0.1ft higher due to a typo in config.
EXT05 - Check color match of M-345 HET livery (wingtips should be red, grey tones slightly darker). Fixed 03/01/2018
EXT06 - Fixed minor bug preventing external lights to show in M-345
EXT07 - Request for option to animate helmet visor.
EXT08 - Added mouse areas to external model (only in P3D): ejection seat will toggle pilot figures, external cockpit handle now works, remove before flight flags can collectively be toggles (would be nice if it was done individually... a possibility for the future!)
Virtual Cockpit:
VC01 - Missing ADI flag or GS indication on GS scale (S-211 only) - FIXED Added missing geometry and animation
VC02 - Missing GS indication on HSI (S-211 only) - FIXED Added Missing geometry and animation
VC03 - Missing G-reset button - FIXED, added missing button
VC04 - Check Anti-ICE and Pitot switches - FIXED "scale" issue preventing correct functionality in FSX (was OK in P3D)
VC05 - Request to add stick removal option - ADDED AS PER REQUEST
VC06 - Check Master Arm animation - FIXED - Identified missing animation tag in MDL
VC07 - Request to increase functionality of UFC - PARTIALLY IMPLEMENTED
VC08 - Last digit of DME not working - FIXED - Identified bug preventing correct calculation of the animation of the last digit
VC09 - Wrong Self illumination light bitmap in M-311 / M-345 cockpits - Fixed, changed materials and completed the missing textures 27/12
VC10 - Canopy handle not clickable - Fixed, issue with trasform/scaling. Redone animation and applied to all models 27/12
VC11 - Check oil press gauge - Fixed, Redone animation
VC12 - Check hyd gauge - Fixed, redone animation
VC13 - Check ITT gauge - Fixed, redone animation
VC14 - DME digits bleed off the window (possibly wrong animation) - FIXED rotation axis issue 27/12
VC15 - Red VNE bug is incorrect (actually it is a leftover from another aicraft) - FIXED changed to 3D object and parametrized to LVAR
VC16 - Emergency Landing gear lever not clickable
VC17 - Parking Brake lever not clickable
VC18 - Wrong canopy rotation in M-345 model - FIXED (redone animation for M-345 VC model)
VC19 - Request to add scratches on the canopy
VC20 - Request to add seat firing handle pin
VC21 - Missing green light for neutral trim - FIXED
VC22 - Armament panel switch not working - FIXED "scale" issue preventing correct functionality in FSX (was OK in P3D)
VC23 - Check Warning Lights test condition (should be possible also with engine off) - FIXED
VC24 - Check link between switches and animations in external lighting panel.
VC25 - Some instruments are missing the backlighting in the S-211 cockpit. FIXED
VC26 - Missing OFF flags from ADI, backup ADI and Altimeter - FIXED
VC27 - Cabin Pressure gauge incorrect values - FIXED
VC28 - Fixed multiple issues with UFCP - now functionality is greatly increased.
VC01 - Missing ADI flag or GS indication on GS scale (S-211 only) - FIXED Added missing geometry and animation
VC02 - Missing GS indication on HSI (S-211 only) - FIXED Added Missing geometry and animation
VC03 - Missing G-reset button - FIXED, added missing button
VC04 - Check Anti-ICE and Pitot switches - FIXED "scale" issue preventing correct functionality in FSX (was OK in P3D)
VC05 - Request to add stick removal option - ADDED AS PER REQUEST
VC06 - Check Master Arm animation - FIXED - Identified missing animation tag in MDL
VC07 - Request to increase functionality of UFC - PARTIALLY IMPLEMENTED
VC08 - Last digit of DME not working - FIXED - Identified bug preventing correct calculation of the animation of the last digit
VC09 - Wrong Self illumination light bitmap in M-311 / M-345 cockpits - Fixed, changed materials and completed the missing textures 27/12
VC10 - Canopy handle not clickable - Fixed, issue with trasform/scaling. Redone animation and applied to all models 27/12
VC11 - Check oil press gauge - Fixed, Redone animation
VC12 - Check hyd gauge - Fixed, redone animation
VC13 - Check ITT gauge - Fixed, redone animation
VC14 - DME digits bleed off the window (possibly wrong animation) - FIXED rotation axis issue 27/12
VC15 - Red VNE bug is incorrect (actually it is a leftover from another aicraft) - FIXED changed to 3D object and parametrized to LVAR
VC16 - Emergency Landing gear lever not clickable
VC17 - Parking Brake lever not clickable
VC18 - Wrong canopy rotation in M-345 model - FIXED (redone animation for M-345 VC model)
VC19 - Request to add scratches on the canopy
VC20 - Request to add seat firing handle pin
VC21 - Missing green light for neutral trim - FIXED
VC22 - Armament panel switch not working - FIXED "scale" issue preventing correct functionality in FSX (was OK in P3D)
VC23 - Check Warning Lights test condition (should be possible also with engine off) - FIXED
VC24 - Check link between switches and animations in external lighting panel.
VC25 - Some instruments are missing the backlighting in the S-211 cockpit. FIXED
VC26 - Missing OFF flags from ADI, backup ADI and Altimeter - FIXED
VC27 - Cabin Pressure gauge incorrect values - FIXED
VC28 - Fixed multiple issues with UFCP - now functionality is greatly increased.
Flight Model:
FM01 - Check max engine N2 (96%)? - Confirmed OK
FM02 - Check starting sequence - cold and dark does not seem to work. - FIXED Avionic toggle condition, mixture conditions etc. added click spot in throttle friction area to allow for throttle stop
FM03 - Check max gross weight for M-345 (the A/C is indeed heavier than the S-211) - Fixed MTOW: 9040lbs as per Leonardo datasheet.
FM04 - Roll rate is lower than the real a/c - Changed air file: now it is within 5deg/s from flight manual figure.
Tacpack functionality:
NONE
NONE
Sound and other:
MISC01 - 345 Engine sound very quiet- REDONE sound package
MISC02 - 211 request to add flaps and gear sound (currently not featured in the package) - Added missing sounds
MISC01 - 345 Engine sound very quiet- REDONE sound package
MISC02 - 211 request to add flaps and gear sound (currently not featured in the package) - Added missing sounds
22 comments:
S-211 (Flew about an hour... gen Handling/aerobatics/ILS).
- ADI didn't see flags or GS indication on the GS Scale on left side of ADI (FD needles seem to function fine).
- Same on HSI (see scale on left side same as ADI comment above)
- Couldn't reset G-Meter
- CABIN ALT Gauge (function ?)
- ENG Anti Ice Pitot tube toggles on side panel doesnt toggle.
- TACAN/ADF/O2/ toggles dont toggle... BAT and GEN do... INVT doesn't (not sure if missed or just not important to BETA... but if payware should work).
-Master Arm cover animates but toggle doesn't toggle (didn't test weapons/tacpak yet).
-LDG switch throttle/IAS turns red for warning... is there an audible?
- SEAT ARM?
- Toggle stick on/off to see HSI better (nice option to have).
- VOR/ADF/ILS needles for bearing pointers on HSI worked as expected )Except GS comment from above. DME functioning.
M-345 (great MFDs... thanks David ; )
- I changed the HUD to F-18 E bracket didn't seem to work for AOA on HUD (will check F-16 HUD on later flight).
- AOA on PFD seemed good (got it in the green for LDG AOA... E bracket indicated top HOZ line i.e. SLOW/Stall).
HUD UFC for lighting didn't seem to function.
All i got for now... nice birds... love both versions.. M-345 seemed to have a bit more power. I dont have Manual for it but I got the S-211 (I'm a member of avialogs).
Merry Christmas!
S-211
Cockpit
Engine Ice/Pitot Switches not functional.
Exterior lights panel does not function.
Speed brake position gauge shows no retracted position indication.
Flap Gauge up position mark needs to be larger.
Parking brake handle has no V/C control or animated position when set/off.
GoPro mount in cockpit, lol!
Cockpit handle not clickable to open?
Taxi/landing light switch not clickable
Oil pressure gauge does not go in the green?
Hyd gauge does not function or show in green.
ITT gauge does not increase with RPM.
Landing gear indicators do not show down and locked lights (three green)
Landing gear lever changes color? grey with RPM up and red when idle?
Just 211 tonight no 345 time tonight : (
- No marker beacon lights or audible for OM MM IM
- Taxi Ldg lights/EXT INT Lights dont function from cockpit but "l" Shift=l and CTL-L work
- Shift-H worked for pitot heat
- Cabin ALT Gauge works (finally got high enough)
- No HYD Pressure indicated on gauge (front panel near ENG cluster).
- See Red Marker for VNE on IAS gauge... audible goes off for VNE way before needle gets near top speed... should that red VNE be dynamic?
- Parking brake animation doesn't function in cockpit
- got to 36200 feet
-Canopy controls dont function in cockpit.
- 97-96% were top NL RPM... checked joystick... confirm what others said about it.
- No clock interface.
- checked all panel switches dials... dont want to comment on at this time... not sure what is intended to function.
-Ext lights looked ok at glance but haven't test yet...
- possibility to lose other ALT and replace with RAD ALT?
- noticed DME gauge window.. sometimes number bleeds into HSI when decreasing... not to distracting... anyone else notice the number bleed?
That's a total of about 2 hours so far...
All, thanks for you time an feedback so far.
I am logging the issues to the main post as I write.
Some miscellaneous comments:
- At the moment, the functionality of HUD controls on the 345 are limited for a number of limitations. Also, the changes to the HUD/MFD code from the T-6 are minimal, so it is not granted to work in all cases.
- Also, some of the switches on the consoles are not intended to be functional. I will post a list of what should work and what should not.
- Last, the cockpit is based on the S-211 I-MJET, which is a little different from the S-211 from the cockpit depicted in the flight manuals online (in that respect bear in mind that, although only 65-70 aicrafts were built there were a number of customizations in the cockpit).
- At the moment, audibile warnings (and external fuel tanks) are not working as I have not the licence for the necessary code, and will be implemented later on.
12/26/2017 Part II
S-211
Cockpit
-Engine Starter & Ignition switches do not work
-Just me, but I do not care for dual altimeter gauges. I’d prefer to keep the one on top.
-I also noticed that I can only get 96% max power out of engine. Checked throttle calibration and it’s ok.
Views FSX Menu
-Default fsx radio panel has controls for COM 1&2 and NAV 1&2 but only radio 1 shows. I realize that the aircraft only has one radio so maybe as of note to tell folks that those buttons do not work in final version.
Weapons Configuration
Suggest you use green for checkmarks in future. <-just me being picky
TACPAC
-ARMT panel does not work. So unable to select ordnance…
Visual Model
-Rear tail light higher than actual light
-When pilot or instructor toggled body removes but helmet and oxygen mask remain. :-O
-canopy not weathered like aircraft body.
-left side inlet scoop aft of canopy not weathered
Most of my issues are similar to those pointed out such as the lack of usable switches (lights, fuel pumps, engine controls, park brake lever, master caution reset etc.). I also have max power reading at 96%. One issue with power that I have noticed (I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet), is a fluctuation in enginge RPM when changing power setting, and also on startup. Not sure if this is supposed to occur or if it is just on my computer, but the RPM seems to fluctuate between 5% and 10% from the desired power setting, about 3 times before settling. I haven't noticed this power fluctuation in other aircraft, therefore I am unsure if it is a characteristic with this aircraft or a minor issue.
Some positives:
I love the handling of the aircraft, it has a nimble feel to it. I also love the quality of the external model, the paint schemes and external features are all very close to that of the real world models.
Sidenote:
I am not sure as to whether you plan to have a backseat view or not. I do enjoy flying from the backseat sometimes.
Well,
as Riley said above most of the mentioned issues apply to myself. Nevertheless I wanted to comment on this aircraft.
The Flight Dynamics of the S-211 are great; in-flight it has a nice and stable Feeling. Take-Off and Landing are easy and fun when following the instructions that are provided in those little Pictures that came with the E-Mail, however even without them it would be no problem to get this Thing in the air and back to the ground. Start-Up procedure is very easy; however kind of tricky when you first don't realize the Switches aren't clickable. After accelerating and flying around a Little the first Thing I noticed was that the marker for the VNE seems to be wrong, as the Ingame-warning appears before even reaching it. Navigating by the HSI and the NAV-Station aswell as the ADF-Station works out well, but the Range-Indication on the upper left-hand Corner doesn't work for me. Otherwise the flight director is working great, in ILS aswell as other situations (Missing flags or GS-Indication aren't crucial therefore, atleast in my opinion). That was my overall first impression when trying to get from A to B with the S-211.
For the following I can only agree to what is said above so I'm going to write down only what I think needs to be improved so that the S-211 can provide enough fun for everyone:
- can only agree on the 97% max engine N2
- no range indication on HSI
- Switches for the ADF-Selection are very "Special" : By Spinning your mousewheel a Little to much you instantly skip hundreds!
- crucial Switches aren't clickable (already in the post)
- no possibility to reset clock or g-Meter
- wrong VNE-marker
The rest (not working gauges e.g.) is already mentioned.
The external model is awesome! However I would wish some animations for the Pilot when moving the rudders (e.g. turning head or something).
All in all certainly a great aircraft to fly - for the casual simmers aswell as the ones that like realism.
Have a great day.
Edit:
This time range indication on the HSI seemed to work out well. Don't know wether it was a bug last time or it depended on the entered values.
Edit:
Tested S-211 in singleplayer aswell as multiplayer. FPS are very good (1080p Ultra High Settings) and stable. Noticed no drops. So far no bugs or when using DX10. However I prefer using DX9 (got nothing to do with the plane).
@All - thanks for your feedback
There seems to be a strange bug affecting the cockpit Mouse Aeras. On my system, many of the switches that are reported not to work (e.g. Armament panel) work fine in P3DV4 but do not work in FSX... strange issue indeed.
Gents
Just a quick update on the switchology - the switches seem indeed to be working in 4.1 but inop in FSX. Same applies to the helmet/oxygen mask issue (which is quite strange as the model is compiled for FSX). Anyway, I should be able to solve this.
The max limiting N2 for the S-211 is 97% and the air file was set accordingly.
I have noticed the same problem already known and read here in the blog.
External model almost perfect...good textures! I would a dirty one also instead.
I cant' see rotation beacon.
The cold and dark procedures don't work for me.
I confirm that the spin manouver is not as the manual declares (i knoe that the spin in p3d is not as real as it gets but here is too like a flat spin)
It seems too handling at the stall speed...the jpats version is a 74 kts stall speed and in the simulateor it seems correct but with no vibrations or other advertisment.
I continue my test in next days.
Thank you Dino!
Dear, Dino,
First, thank you for your confidence in this developpment of a new aircraft. We are proud to be part of it.
After several flights, We clearly appreciated your work on the planes.
The first very important point is that there is no pb of compatibility in FSX acceleration, and P3D, whereas some numerous aircraft have a blind canopy in P3DV3.
Ours tests were conducted mainly on FSX Acceleration because of an internal pb.
Now in details :
S-211 :
The flaps and gear have no sound.
This aircraft is lacking thrust / power, and loosing a lot in aerobatics. You have to push 90% to take off safely. And performing a formation loop was very touchy.
We would suggest that the actual 90% power could correspond to a real 80% in the future.
S211/M345 :
There is a significative difference in the speeds indicated by the aircraft / by fsx or P3d via ctrl+z. For instance, on parking, brakes blocked with 0% power, FSX and P3D indicate 7 kias. In flight, the difference can be even more important.
Whatever effect we chose, it has been impossible for us to add smoke on both aircraft.It would just made a little " bubble".
Also, both aircraft are lacking efficiency with the rudder on the ground. You always have to use differential brakes to turn correctly.
On both aircraft, the lights did not seem very visible from the exterior.
M345
There is a pb with the fuel load : if you fill the tanks more than 45%, it indicates that you are exceeding the max gross weight.
Being more powerful, this iarcraft seems to be too much sensitive on the elevators.
As for a use in aerobatic team's pespective, on both aircraft, we would request you to :
-add smoke effects
-add smoke spotlights in the cockpit : ideally two (one for white and one for colour, this latter referring to strobe on/off) on each side so that wingmen can still have an eye on it.
You have done a great job, Dino, and both aircraft seem pleasant to fly.
The test flights will go on in the coming weeks.
Read you soon,
Flew 345 again...
I stand corrected on the AOA symbology in the HUD... seems to work, but maybe different from what I'm used to. I'm used to the airplane symbol (circle with hoz/vert lines) lining up with the E bracket (like it does on the T-45).
On 345 HUD (for both F-16 and F-18 Mode) there is the 'circle' airplane symbol and the 'W' symbol... so the airplane Circle displays below on the HUD and the W aircraft on the right of the E bracket... so the W symbol corresponds with the PFD AOA information... what's interesting is that the landing speeds are what you would expect on a larger fighter (F-18/F-16)... approximately 135kts... higher than what I would expect for a M345... unless getting students used to more advanced types. Sort of how the SR-71 guys used the T-38...
Is the 345 landing speeds that much higher than the S-211?
Is this HUD working correctly, with this symbology? I guess as long as you can train AOA Approaches, for precision landings its all good. I need to go back and fly the T6 and see how it behaves there.
I had the Friday Harbor OBX with FSX settings near max... in the 345 took a FPS hit (not in 211)... after about an hour I got booted to the desktop with the dreaded out of virtual memory message.
Did lots of aerobatics in both types... couldn't spin either.. seemed to get aircraft to depart with slight gyration... and then just picks up speed with the nose down with full aft stick and full rudder.
Roll rate is slow but seems fine for a basic trainer.
I love the concept... nice to have this type jet to fill a niche to lead into the T-45 or MILVIZ T-38.
I'd like to add something about both aircraft. We are very happy that they are able to fly upside down without any trouble.
Good day and HAPPY 2018!
Thanks for your comments and inputs - few notes:
- The reason why it is impossible to add special effects is that smoke effects are currently "slaved" to the Tacpack gun functionality (so that the first 4 smoke effects are automatically turned off if a gun is not firing)
- The armament controls should work in P3D... however pressing control+shift+1 should arm the first pylon and so on. This should allow firing guns and rockets even in the current build.
- As for potential HUD inaccuracies... the HUD is reused from the Iris T-6 with no modifications, so it is indeed possible that it does not fit perfectly to the M-345.
Dear Dino,
I understand about "tacpack" functionnality, and as we do not use it for the moment, here is what we did :
[SMOKESYSTEM]
smoke.0= -15.00, 0.00, 1.0, fx_smoke_w
//smoke.1 = 3.15, -7, -0.35, fx_211_gun // Macchi GUN STA 1
//smoke.2 = 4.67, -4.7, -0.375, fx_211_gun // Macchi GUN STA 2
//smoke.3 = 4.67, 4.7, -0.375, fx_211_gun // Macchi GUN STA 3
//smoke.4 = 3.15, 7, -0.35, fx_211_gun // Macchi GUN STA 4
Could you please tell people not using tackpack how to shut off "tackpack slavery" and add some smoke to your aircraft, as it is possible for T45, for instance?
Thanks for your patience and advice.
A video is coming shortly
Read you soon,
Nephis airlines
Hi Dino,
I have spent a couple of hours so far with the two aircraft in FSX:SE and can find no other issues than those that have already been described. The lack of audible warnings in the beta until identified felt strange when deliberately departing from standard flying and I sure tried to spin this aircraft but so far to no avail.
Unable to do multi as intended so far.
Cheers
Rod
Flew 345 again... I stand corrected on HUD AOA Symbology... it seems that it functions as designed. Flew the T6 and the HUD symbology behaves just like the 345.
So that's great... precision landings in the 345 for Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP)!
I'm still curious why the landing speeds are so much higher than the 211 (or T6 for that matter)... I will test again to make sure I have both aircraft at the same weight (Both max gross weights are the same). The 345 when flying an AOA approach the speed was approximately 135kts... the HUD AOA symbology corresponds with the AOA information on the PFD ADI. When the W is on the middle of the E Bracket in the HUD the PFD AOA needle will be in the green area.
Can someone else look at this and weigh in... I'm not bent on the AOA thing... but since the 345 avionics have it baked in... it would be great to conduct FCLP with this jet.
I did fly with the OBRX Friday Harbor with settings near max... after about an hour I got booted to the desktop with the out of Virtual memory error... I didn't get this with the 211. My system is a bit dated and I usually don't fly certain models of fast jets with high scenery.
Any chance on losing the second BARO ALT and getting a RAD ALT in its place?
Or and AOA gauge with an AOA indexer on the Dash ; ) "kidding"
Happy New Year!
On the M-45 it looks like there are 2 levels of speed break. But when you use increases spoiler in PDV4 it just extends. It does not increment one level on the speedbreak indicator.
Dear All,
as the bugs reported are now "stable" (meaning no new issues are popping out, and I am getting mostly duplicate reports of the old ones) - I consider the BETA TEST COMPLETE.
A Release Candidate should be ready in few days.
THANK YOU ALL! I hope you had fun!
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