Monday, May 28, 2012

F-35 Beta 2 Test WIP - Reporting and open discussion


***********************
STOP TO APPLICATIONS - THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR INTEREST IN THE F-35 PROJECT. I'VE RECEIVED DOZENS OF APPLICATIONS - I'VE ALREADY SENT MOST OF THE INVITATIONS, BUT I MAY ADD A FEW MORE AS I HAVE SOME MORE TO REVIEW. ANYWAY NUMBER OF INVITATION WILL BE LIMITED FOR PRACTICAL REASONS.
THANKS FOR YOU HELP AND UNDERSTANDING!
***********************


This is a placeholder post for the Beta 2 testing of the F-35C project - if possible, Beta testers should add their comments to this post so that we can have a unique repository for the CR's.
A draft user manual will be posted here as soon as it will be available (provided it will be ready in the next week or so).

IMPORTANT! Testers, while evaluating the F-35 please consider that:

- F-35A flight model is set so that the weight of 2x2000lbs JDAMs and 2xAIM120s is taken in account. 
- F-35B flight model is set so that the weight of 2x1000lbs JDAMs and 2xAIM120s is taken in account. 
- F-35C flight model is set so that the weight of 6x2000lbs JDAMs, 2xAIM120s and 2xAIM9Xs is taken in account. 
- F-35B: STOVL mode is activated trough the button in the cockpit or through the button assigned to tailhook lever. STOVL mode cannot be engaged above 250kts.
- F-35B: AUTO-HOVER mode is activated either through the MFD (if relevant icon is cyan), or through the autopilot-heading hold function. To engage auto-hover, total weight must be lower than 42000lbs. Dump fuel if necessary.
- F-35B: AUTO-HOVER when in auto hover mode: stick L/R makes the plane translate L/R; rudder L/R makes the plane rotate L/R; stick F/A makes the plane ascend/descend; AILERON TRIM controls the forward/backward speed. If the avionics are tracking a carrier (default, Javier's Nimitz or the Clemenceau) the target speed will be automatically set to the one of the carrier.
- F-35C: launch bar and fold wings controls/graphics are missing. You will have to assign keys to those controls.
- F-35C: due to the payload, the plane is way too heavy to land safely on a carrier - you should dump fuel so that the total weight is below 50000lbs to have a suitable descent rate.

F-35 BETA TEST REPORT
**********************
Last update 2012/07/10 h.23:50 CET

BETA WILL CLOSE ON 10th June 2012
GENERAL ISSUES (APPLY TO ALL MODELS)

1) MICRO-OSCILLATIONS WHILE ON THE GROUND [FM]. On most load conditions, whiel sitting still on the ground, the plane suffers from micro-oscillations which may lead to a heading change. This seems to be due to an FSX contact points instability - In version 1.0 was fixed by changing the gear contact points, but same fix does not work on 2.0, unless severe steering instability is reached. STATUS: OPEN. ACTION TBD - Anyway I am not willing to sacrifice general ground handling to solve this.


2) VC, RADAR/MAP MODE [VC]. Evaluating minor refinements to the interface: +/- click areas on radio frequency controls; open/close doors area correction; full screen radar/map view toogle fix. STATUS: CLOSED. Minor enhancements to radio controls and map modes.


3) HMD superimposed elements [VC]. Evaluate redo of superimposed elements (target designators etc): STATUS: CLOSED. Minor enhancments to HMD symbology. Tried to implement more accurate graphics but did not look that good and were useless in the sim.

4) MISSING C++ Runtime refenece in documentation [MISC] - Reminder for me: add reference (or inclusion) of the "Visual C runtime" in the manual - in its absence STOVL functionalities won't work. STATUS: OPEN

5) sswvtol.dll TYPO [MISC] - I made a typo on the name of the .dll. Sorry for that, my bad.
STATUS: CLOSED. Fixed in the WIP Manual.


6) HMD Projection plane visible under certain conditions - This seems due to DX shader effects under some specific weather and light conditions. STATUS: CLOSED - ACTION: The issue was not solved but was mitigated by creating small round edges at the corners of the projection plane.

7) Request to swap radio and GPS stack. STATUS: CLOSED - ACTION: Done on all models.

8) Request to improve readability of MAP mode. STATUS: CLOSED/MITIGATED. ACTION: Could not find a way to increase font size for readability, but enhanced color contrast and redone terrain colouring (now shaded grayscale, looks much more authentic).
F-35A SPECIFIC ISSUES

(none)

F-35B SPECIFIC ISSUES

B1) RIGHT/LEFT SIDE OF FCS PAGE DIFFER [VC]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION: copied .xml code changes from MFD1 to MFD2 (forgot to do that).

B2) LIFT FAN DOOR ANGLE  IS SMALLER THAN REAL PLANE [OM]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION: Lift fan door angle increased to 65 degrees. Model tested. - AMENDED ON 05/06

B3) TAILERONS TO MOVE DOWNWARD IN STOVL MODE [OM]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION: Changed external model, added animation chain. Tailerons now rotate by 12.5 degrees during STOVL conversion. Note: most videos of the real plane show this, but not all. Also, some videos show that the inner gear bay doors open while in STOVL/hover although I've mostly this in BF-1 test flights and does not seem to be the case in the latest footage. Still, it would be much more difficult to add...

B4) MINOR ANIMATION GLITCH TO LIFT FAN AND 3BSM DOORS [OM]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION. Fixed minor animation glitches.

B5) "BEWARE OF BLAST" DECAL TOO BIG. [OM]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION: Modified textures.


F-35C SPECIFIC ISSUES

C1) SMS PAGE UPDATE [VC] - Stores Management System should reflect default weapons loadout. STATUS: CLOSED. Default weight changed to 2xJDAMS+2AIM120s+Gunpod.


C2) CABLE FORCE [FM] - Ajust cable force for better dynamics during arrested landings. STATUS:CLOSED. ACTION: fixed aircraft.cfg

C3) "BEWARE OF BLAST" DECAL TOO BIG. [OM]. STATUS: CLOSED. ACTION: Modified textures.


C4) UNABLE TO ACCELERATE OVER 600kts. [FM] - Even if the user unloads the plane, the flight model does not allow to exceed approx. 600kts. - This is due to added drag to the FM which was introduced to better simulate the orndance. It may be better to lower the drag coefficient.  STATUS: CLOSED. Fixed with new FM.C5) PROPOSAL TO MOVE VIEW POINT AND CORRECT FM TO HAVE A PERFECT MATCH WITH LM SIMULATOR [FM]. As per JR suggestions it is possible to have an almost perfect match to real F-35 simulator on carrier ops, but changes should be evaluated carefully on the flight envelope. STATUS: CLOSED. Changed as per request.

C6) PROPOSAL TO CHANGE DEFAULT LOADOUT [FM][OM] STATUS: CLOSED. Default weight shall be 2xAIM120s + 2xJDAMS + gunpod, but such visual model shall not be provided (see comments for explaination)
C7) LAUNCH BAR & FOLD WINGS CONTROLS MISSING FROM MFD. [VC] STATUS: OPEN. ACTION:CLOSED. Added code to MFDs although it does not work properly on with "3 views" mode...
C8) TAILHOOK BULGE SHAPE [OM] - Looks different from the real counterpart. STATUS: Improved, not completely fixed but looks better.

C9) AILERONS SHOULD WORK AS FLAPERONS [OM] - STATUS: Fixed.

Key:
[FM] - Flight model (main root cause is the aircraft.cfg or the .air file)
[OM] - Outer model (main root cause is the outer 3d model)
[VC] - Virtual cockpit (main root cause is the 3d model of the virtual cockpit or the associated .XML code)
[MISC] - Any other defect which does not fall in the above categories

Color key:
Green - issue solved, or mitigated to the point is acceptable or not perceived by most users.
Yellow -issue open, and could be perceived as product defect by many users. Awaiting action or investigation. Or issue open, mitigated to the best of my knowledge but will still be perceived as defect by users. Or issue open but appears easy to fix.
Red - root cause not identified as of today. Or the problem is beyond my knowledge or impossible or difficult to solve.

50 comments:

Anonymous said...

Just guessing the Italian directives on this Blog.. Sorry :)

1. The changes I made in mdf1.xml should also be (I assume) in mfd2.xml (new bitmaps reference, targetspeed indication). In STOVL, just click FCS in the right MFD to view the difference.
2. Should STOVL not work at all, a reference (or inclusion)of the "Visual C runtime" is needed.

Best regards, Rob

Orion said...

1. HUD projection plane visible in certain conditions. *

2. When in STOVL, both HUD and Shift+Z read ±0.0G. ** & ***

3. In VTOL, ascending at the maximum rate causes HUD to show alpha at xxxx. ***

4. Request/preference: is it necessary to have the STOVL gauge produce a green informational bar on startup? Or at least possible to turn off the sound?

5. Another request/preference: is it possible to vary the low level hover effect depending on the surface (e.g. mist over water, dust over dirt, possibly something like a rotor wash effect)?

6. Yet another request/preference: is is possible to use elevator trim instead of aileron trim for the VTOL forward/back controls? I don't believe that they are used in VTOL configuration, and the fact that they are already mapped would make it a lot more convienent to use. The values for the elevator trim could be stored before entering VTOL, then returned afterwards, preventing any jump in movement (which you would get when assigning it to a slider, like the throttle, for example).

* http://i.imgur.com/Dh2Na.jpg
** http://i.imgur.com/WW08k.jpg
*** http://i.imgur.com/QvAvj.jpg

And few more screenshots just for fun: http://i.imgur.com/mKRco.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IXfKY.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lpn2H.jpg.

Orion said...

Oh, and another request: is it possible to swap the GPS and radio panel key combinations? For all the default planes and many other addons, it's typical for GPS to be on Shift+3. I keep finding myself pressing Shift+3 for the GPS, then becoming annoyed when the radio stack comes up.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@CONTRIBUTORS

I just wanted to clarify that, if you will, you can discuss/comment freely in this post.

I will use the main post to collect Change Requests (and may or may not "accept" them).

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@TESTERS

Please take your time testing the F-35. I will not have much time to work on it for few days, and

@CONTRIBUTORS

Another clarification: I am really happy with the HMD and the STOVL module, and with all the other contributions. Still I am not the authors of those modules so I leave it to the individual developer to accept or not the CR's for their part.
From my perspective - they are quite awesome as they are :-)!

neutrino said...

@Dino, @Orion
The issue with the HUD showing ±0.0G and xxxx for the AoA in STOVL will be fixed in the next HUD update. Dino, I will send you the updated version when you close the beta.
~ J.R. 'neutrino'

Rob Barendregt said...

@Orion:

Hi Orion,

As to your questions:

4. The green info line at startup is part of the vtol.dll, made by Mario Motta. It there for copyright reasons; I have no control over that.
As to the sound at startup: that's the NoSmoking sound from the F18 sound package :), since I use the NoSmoking event to find out if FSX is fully initialised at load.
I'll try to find another unused variable that doesn't produce a sound.

5. No, sorry.
These effects are switched on/off using unused light switches in the aircraft.cfg; however, to have the proper effect (depending on air / surface conditions) I need at least 5 free switches, which aren't available in this aircraft.
So it was kept simpel :)

6. I used elevator trim as "proxy" for targetspeed control in the past, and indeed, the solution for saving/restoring the el. trim setting would work. However, el. trim has two drawbacks:
A. Some people have a Trim wheel, which will interfere with my gauge making instant changes in Targetspeed setting; like when doing a vertical liftoff from a moving AI carrier. (Targetspeed instantly changes from 0 to "carrier" speed at liftoff).
B. The el. trim axis has a built-in "accelleration" function, which makes setting a targetspeed very unpredictable, depending how fast you give El. Trim commands to make a substantial change in Targetspeed.

Last reason not to use a real axis (coupled to a controller lever): IRL this is done by a rocket switch as well ...

Iow: Aileron Trim is just the best compromise. Hope it's clear.


Regards, Rob

neutrino said...

@Dino
F-35C, flight model
- cable_force_adjust in the aircraft.cfg needs to be 0.70; this will stop the aircraft in the proper zone and will provide smoother and more stable landings; you can be in trouble if you land above 140 kts on the default carrier and catch the 4th wire.
~ J.R.

Orion said...

@Rob
- Alternatively, effects can be placed in the smoke system. You can trigger them using XML gauge code-- an example is at FSDeveloper here: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14592.
- Is it possible to allow the user to redefine the event the hover forward/back is bound to?
@J.R.
Hope I didn't cause you too much trouble re. the HUD elements. :P

Anonymous said...

I don't know if it was already mentioned, but is there any possible way to add support to A2A's accufeel? When I descend vertically, the plane shake's very rapidly because Accufeel does not recognize the VTOL Action. Just a thought. And also, when I activate the HMDS, Is there any possible way an actual HUD can be displayed in the center? oh and when I change views and I am in HMDS mode, it disappears and I have to reactivate it again. Any fix for this? By the way, Great Product and I will definitely buy the full version when It comes out! Great work!

Rob Barendregt said...

@Orion:
I'm aware of the thread you mention about using the Smokesystem with multiple smoke.x definitions.
If you send me an Email (for my address: see the end of file F35B\panel\rcb-gauges\README STOVL.txt) I'll gladly explain why I won't use this 'hidden' feature in FSX. If you are familiar with the MSFS "continuous event problem", the code examples in this thread may ring a bell. If not, I will explain.
Same goes for my reasons not to make the fore/aft speed in a hover event-configurable.

@Anonymous, wrt. to your Accufeel question: Sorry, no solution for that I'm afraid. It's obviously a case of two generic FSX addons that "bite" eachother. Maybe A2A has a solution for that; I don't.

Regards, Rob

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Anonymous
As for the HMD, actually, it would be possible to have an "HUD" superimposed to the any view (and it is an easy change) but that is not the way it is in the real F-35. The real thing is very close to HUD in FSX and symbology outside that is very limited - if you think about that otherwise could be very confusing for the pilot.

Actually, the information out of the VHUD is even less than what we have at the moment, and it is practially only the target designator and essential weaponry/aiming indications.

@Rob & Neutrino

Once again, thanks for your support!

Jerad Burns said...

Is it still possible to get a copy of this F35 beta? Im very impressed and interested in it, and would spend alot of time testing it still if thats possible.

Rob Barendregt said...

F35B bug (STOVL gauge).

When taxiing around on a moving carrier in STOVL mode and making a too sharp turn (like in trying to taxi a tight circle with full rudder) will cause the F35B to taxi off the deck :(
Status: reason known; ToBeSolved.

Rob

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Jerad

I am sorry but I've closed Beta applications (although not all the invitations have been sent yet) but at the moment there are enough testers on board.

@All

I was thinking to close BETA 2 stage by June 10th - but it appears that the product seems free from major issues. If so, I will anticipate the closure.

Daniele said...

F-35B:
- the upper cover of the VSTOL fan, when it is open, looks not so vertical as it seems on youtube's videos.

All models:
- fuel dump rate is, in my personal opinion, too fast (about 10.000 lbs/min?).

BTW well done, it's a great plane!

Daniele/Lupo2

Jerad Burns said...

okay no problem :) Keep up the great work, F35 is my fav jet, and the best looking jet in my opinion. Im stoked that someones finally putting them into FSX! you got my full support dude!

letourn said...

You can watch that vid on the dumbing fuel speed at around 2 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbnWg4v6iHk

Jerad Burns said...

How does the Switch to hover mode animations look? I really cant wait to see it.

Scott Gray said...

F-35C Testing

1) Seems the aircraft will not accelerate over approximately 600 kts, however, the A model with far exceed that at nearly 990 kts. Even with all payloads set to zero except for the pilot.

2) A/P Alt Hold does not capture the altitude and exceed the desire altitude by thousands of feet in either a climb or descent. The T-45, which appears to have the same A/P configuration does not do this.

3) In the HSI and Map it is very difficult to read any labels, is it possible to enhance this or replace the map mode with just the GPS?

The aircraft generally handles good and with gross weight down to 46,000 lbs and a trap speed of 145, it operates well on the carrier. Look forward to the modifications and the release of the aircraft.
javascript:void(0)
VADM Scott "LoVis" Gray
Deputy Chief of Naval Operations - Personnel/Resources
Virtual United States Navy (VUSN)
www.vusn.org

Seth Bartschi said...

First, great airplanes! They look spectacular and work quite well. With that said, the following comments are generally persnickety. Whether these issues can be addressed or not, I leave to the experts to decide.

All models:
-When real combat aircraft have heavy external loads present, like fuel tanks and bombs, the g-limit is lower because of the added weight and stress on the wings. So instead of pulling 9-10g's it's more like 5-6, maybe 7g's. I observed that I can pull just as many g's in a fully loaded F-35 as I can in an unladen airplane--of course taking into account all the stores and fuel loads in the fuel/payload configurator.

-I may have overlooked some switch or key command, but is there a way to turn off the HUD projected into the canopy so I can just use the HMD? Jon Beasley, ex-chief test pilot for Lockheed Martin, says that the HMD completely replaces the HUD in the F-35. Simulators show a HUD-like setup for simplicity sake. I’d like to use the HMD but with the HUD there is too much symbology traffic. Also I agree with the earlier blogger about being able to use the HMD without having to punch in the command every time I leave the cockpit view.

-I feel like the rotation speed is a bit too fast. I pull back on the stick on takeoff and I get no response until about 150kts. It seems like I should have some rotation control 20-30kts before the takeoff speed. The F-35C is a little better than the A and B about this.

F-35B:
-In a descent in VTOL mode the airplane shakes in a similar way to the buffet from a power-on stall. Its supposed to be there for a stall but it’s a little annoying in a hover.

-It’d be nice if the VSTOL mode covered a lower speed range for landing, like closer to 40 or 50kts. Right now if I land in VSTOL mode below 65kts, no matter how gently, the airplane crashes.

-The real F-35B horizontal stabilizers are in a negative attitude in STOVL/VTOL modes, which would be nice to see.

-Suggestion: Though I know the real F-35B’s VSTOL exhaust plume is nearly invisible, I would like to see a light exhaust effect if possible.

F-35C:
-I noticed the g-load is lower in this model than the others, which I think is fine, but I think it would be more realistic if this model decelerated in a turn faster than the other two models--similar to a Hornet.

-I agree with another blogger that the acceleration and top speed for this model is a bit too slow. I don’t think it should be as fast as the A or B models (because of the larger wings and extra gas), but faster than this current configuration.

-The real F-35C uses the outboard ailerons as flaperons with the gear down, similar to the Hornet family. I think it looks a bit better in that configuration as well.

Josef said...

Dino;

Happy testing for me right now. The C model is very nice around the Javier Nimitz carrier.

However, the B in auto-hover slowly sinks without input to pull up. I checked my X52 calibration and all is well.

BTW, how did you arrive at the max hover weight you did? I wish I had more fuel than around 4,000 pounds to bring my bombs back with.

That said, the auto-hover mode is brilliantly done. Settling notwithstanding, I love it and the ease of putting down.

Finally, if you want my screenshots - please let me know.

Josef
josefk-at-USA-dot-com

schmooze13 said...

So far So good! Struggling to find any major problems in all the Models! So far, I can only real find the more obvious bugs (such as the micro oscillation's)and other bugs already mentioned.

the A model is suburb! it seems a lot less 'framey' then the V1! didn't discover any problems thus far.

The B model hovers like a dream! the only real problem I could find is the stuttering encountered when pulling a hard right or left aileron in the hover mode. Another thing I noticed in comparison to the various you tube videos. The main engine swivel (or whatever you would call it) seems to move right to left on the real thing. So this could possibly be a future implementation

The C model also handles like a dream. As previously stated, hitting the wires can act a little weird.

In terms of possible features, all I could really think of is a paint kit and/or other liveries. Apart from that, its all pretty damn awesome! Well done Dino and All involved!

Cheers

Daniele said...

My impressions after a weekend of intense flying and debugging:
- When hovering and descending (B version), the throttle (and nozzles) moves quickly from minimum to maximum power, even if without effects on the manouver.
- I also suggest to emphasize the pitch angle of the horizontal stabilizers when the aircraft hovers.
And two requests, if easy to realize it:
- a switch to declutter the HUD when using the HMD (as already reported)
- a vertical cam to show the ground (or the deck) under the belly of the B version, like in the real plane.
Thanks for these beauties, have a good time!

Daniele/lupo2

Egan said...

Hmmm...tried to post before, still not showing up. Hoping this works this time:

1. Excellent models and texture maps! I checked all 3 variants in triplehead2go as well, internally and externally.

2. Audio announcement about seatbelts etc. at beginning of flight - yes, do please try to remove this as it does detract from the experience.

3. Micro oscillations in cockpit. For what it's worth, I read the note on this blog and I understand, but still, wish it could be fixed.

4. I read this blog's note about the need for Visual C++ to make the hover work. Downloaded the 2010 SP1 version from Microsoft. Apparently, I only had the 2005 and 2008 versions which did not let the hover work.

5. I like the implementation of the autohover. I think it's one of the best implementations (and I say that after having tried a number of autohover implementations). That said, here are some observations and reflections (but these are subjective).

- When my physical throttle is pulled back from full to a middle (or zero) position, the in-cockpit virtual throttle snaps back to full throttle position. Oftentimes, the virtual throttle graphic flashes to and fro between the full and middle (or zero) positions, as does the external view of the exhaust nozzle's opening and closing. (And I've calibrated my CH throttle, so I've confirmed in the CH control manager that it isn't the throttle spiking). The aircraft can still hover vertically up/down with throttle at zero.

- There is a brief low pulsating sound when the flight stick is moved forward or backward (to hover/move the aircraft vertically up/down). I don't know if the real aircraft has this, but it feels bothersome and distracting. Perhaps a different, more "aviation engine fan" sound?

- Is the aircraft too stable when in hover? (I haven't found any youtube videos of in-cockpit with aircraft in hover mode to really
judge this well) I tried hovering in crosswinds and though the aircraft is blown/moved in the direction of the wind, it's very "smooth". That said, I feel I must add that I actually *do* like the stability because frankly, I'm not that good at landing the craft on the carrier in light crosswinds if it isn't stable the way it currently is.

- Add a heat blur effect especially during hover?

- turning on the lights with the L key also (very) briefly shows the fandust/groundeffect.

- Is groundeffect/fandust too far forward of plane? (see pic
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s222/uses321/groundeffect.jpg)

6. Should there be a dumping fuel effect? By the way, does dumping fuel (from, say right tank) affect the center of gravity of the plane and so require flight compensation? Doesn't seem so, and anyway, probably an unnecessary complication to the sim/enjoyment of the aircraft.

7. Perhaps a clean model (without JDAMS etc.) for the F-35C to land
on carriers?

8. contrails only on one side? (see pic
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s222/uses321/contrail1side.jpg).
Addendum - OK, this is odd: I can't repeat this issue, but am
reporting it just to be complete.

9. the HUD (shift+1, shift+2) is neat! Unfortunately, it's stretched in triplehead2go (understandably).

10. Would be really cool to have the afterburner illuminate the ground, but that's a wish, not a bug!

Hope this is helpful,
Egan

Josef said...

Egan;

Saw your post - absolute agreement, a clean F-35C model w/ only internal weapons with only possibly the gun attached would be much appreciated please Dino.

Daniele;

Agreed. A camera looking down would be nice :-)!

Robby said...

I'm working to reduce max G-load to 7/7.5G on B/C models.
Will send modified FM to Dino ASAP

Robby

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@ALL

My apologies for the lack of updates - I've been away for the whole weekend.
It seems to me that the overall quality of the Beta, while far from being perfect, is not bad.

@Robby

As far as I can understand, G limits can be set also in the aircraft.cfg and they should already be set to the proper values (although there is a safety margin)...

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@MISCELLANEOUS ANSWERS

- DOWNWARD CAMERA: it is already there. SHIFT+5. It was decided to leave it as a separate window because it may have a significant hit on fps if integrated in the MFD.

- F-35C CLEAN MODEL: f-35C model was a sort of "last minute addition"... it started as the main point of the new version, then it has been left out for modeling reasons. And then I found a suitable solution but it is quite inaccurate on the lower surface. External loads as defaults were added to mask those defects. I'll give it a go, but I can't promise anything.

- DECLUTTER: may be a good idea...

- FUEL DUMP EFFECT: afaik, it is there and working on all versions...

Rob Barendregt said...

Hi all,

A suggestion when testing the F35B: in the folder ...F35B/Panel/rcb-gauges/ there is a file "README STOVL.txt", that probably answers a lot of questions. Like the problem of non-working external throttle lever (in Hover mode, the F35B is on Autothrust), the request for a vertical cam, etc ...

A few other notes:

@Seth: as to landing speed: I can implement that in about 10 sec :)
The problem is the lack of real-world specs, which simply aren't available. Most of the stuff I implemented in the STOVL function, came from a guy that had some flight time in the LM simulator; but that's all rather fragmatic.
A good example of my lack of info: all instruction videos speak of "pressing a button on the throttle to quickly decel to a hover". But what does a "hover" mean:
- Zero airspeed ?
- Zero groundspeed relative to earth ?
- Zero groundspeed relative to a moving carrier you're trying to land on ?

Untill "Mike", or a real testpilot, joins Flightsim forums, the answer on such questions will be educated guesswork for now I'm afraid.

@Seth: as to the shaking in vertical landings: did you read previous post about the use of Accufeel ?
If that is what you are referring to, just disable Accusim while flying this F35B, and the problem is gone.
If it's not that problem, please provide additional info.

@Jozef: See my STOVL README.
If you really want to hover at the exact same altitude with any forward/backward speed and lateral speeds, use the V/S-Hold function when the F35B is in a stable hover.
As to the max. hover weight: like the airspeeds above, it can easily be changed. It's now at 42000 lbs, but I don't have a spec. that gives me the correct values and conditions.

@Danielle:
See README on the Vertical cam.
As to "...no effect on the manouvers": Sorry, I don't understand your remark. If you're in a hover, and descend by pushing the stick, thrust decreases obviously (because the F35B is on auto-thrust), but the nozzle rotation doesn't change. Unless there's substantial wind and you decend whilst also changing heading.

@Egan:
- Startup "Seatbelt" sound: already removed in next version :)
- as to "physical throttle" and "FSX-throttle": see my STOVL README. The main problem is that FSX simply doesn't implement the real concept of "auto-thrust"; just "auto-throttle". And there's no way, I can command your physical throttle lever/wheel without sophisticated addon hardware. So no solution for that, sorry.
- As to the "low-pulsating sound": I don't experiance this; and it certainly isn't intentional.
- As to "being too stable or not":
Your guess on stability is as good as mine; I can only assume, even if there's no wind, that if a F35B hovers just above the ground, there WILL be some disturbance because of the downward airflow. In heading, pitch and bank. Which I tried to simulate.
- About an afterburner illuminating the ground in VTOL: yes, would look great, but would also be very irrealistic :)


Regards, Rob

czk said...

F35B test report

Thank you for your great work!
I'm sorry that I can't good explain by .txt.
Please see my F35B test report in my Blogger:

http://f35test.blogspot.de/2012/06/f35b-test-report.html

letourn said...

First to all of you who is working on these birds a big THANKS cause its really fun to fly!

I also experience most of the small problems already told. So i will only post whats new or what i already know the answer.

F-35BC = HUD when decreasing visibility weather almost disappear. not tested with A
F-35ABC = 2d HUD and HMDS (shitf+1, shift+2), does not show using Nvidia surround resolution at 5700 x 1200 like all the other FSX plane. Can be fix by changing parameters in the panel.cfg
F-35BC = Dont see any dumb fuel effect or heat effect cause either by Nvidia sourroud or DX10 Preview Mode.
F-35B = JR refuelling gauge----Test OK
F-35B = fsrecorder ------------Test OK
F-35BC = TRACKIR 5 ------------Test OK
F-35C = Wire caught, IFLOLS --------Test OK
F-35C = panel.cfg title is //F-35A Panel configuration file need to be replace to //F-35C Panel configuration file

Suggestions, Fictional Carrier Based refueler model for buddy-buddy refueling for use in MP, AI or with Fsrecorder

@Egan, I can help you with modifying your panel.cfg so it will look right with your 3head2go.

Egan said...

@Rob Barendregt
- Good, good. I tried to be thorough and thinking of improvements and possibilities not already mentioned. No problem, thanks!

@letourn
-yes, thanks, would be happy to have you post about setting up for TH2GO so it's not stretched! Perhaps post here so when final is released, others too may benefit?

Josef said...

Dino;
Will use SHIFT-5 in tomorrow night's beta testing... Pacific time.

Rob;
Just printed out to read in bed Pacific time.

Good work guys but say, the grip of the F-35B in a taxi and not flip leaves a bit to be desired.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Rob and Josef

I've double checked on the Internet (lacking official flight test data) and several sites report 41900lbs as total thrust when in hover mode.

3BSM (dry thrust) 18,000 lbf LiftFan 20,000 lbf
Roll posts (combined) 3,900 lbf
Total 41,900 lbf

So I believe the 42000lbf estimate is acceptable (although the real plane would only be able to descend at that weight)...BTW an amazing figure if you ask me.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@ALL

Yesterday night I tested a "clean" F-35C model, and, as I thought, the modeling approximations in some areas of the lower surfaces look really bad. So it is a no-go.
I will test another model with external fuel tanks only... that may be a good compromise.

Robby said...

@Dino, my poor english, you know :-) Previous post was intended:
Actually with B model is possible to pull over 9 G's. My intention was to limitate this "performance" closer to 7 G's, like the real one (if you agree, of course).

SpazSinbad said...

[b]F35B test report[/b] by 'czk' 03 June 2012
http://f35test.blogspot.de/2012/06/f35b-test-report.html
"...2.3 Lift fan upper door attitude and aerodynamics are not right. [OM] and [FM]
Lift fan upper door should have low and high speed Level for 75 degree and 45 degree...
...(You need change the default degree from 45 degree to 75 degree first, and then create a function, that the lift fan upper door will automatically decrease to 45 degrees if the speed reaches 230kts...
&
...3.4 Lift fan upper door attitude and aerodynamics are not right. [OM] and [FM]
(You need change the default 45 degree of the lift fan upper door to 75 degree.)"
_______________

I'm not testing the F-35 but want to point out in reference to the text excerpts above (from an excellent detailed test report by 'czk') one new change to how the F-35B lift fan door now operates as per:

F-35 Begins Year With Test Objectives Unmet [STOVL IAS Change]
Jan 4, 2011 [NOTE DATE] By Graham Warwick http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/awst/2011/01/03/AW_01_03_2011_p22-279507.xml
"...The lift-fan door was programmed to open to 65 deg. below 120 kt., and to 35 deg. above that airspeed. But with the large door fully open, loads on the auxiliary-inlet doors behind it are reduced, so the schedule has been changed to keep the lift-fan door open 65 deg. up to 165 kt. during a short takeoff, he says...."
___________
LATER:
F-35B - Doors (Pt. 2) by Graham Warwick Dec/9/2011 [Note Date]
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/aviation_week/on_space_and_technology/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=a68cb417-3364-4f
bf-a9dd-4feda680ec9c&plckPostId=Blog%3aa68cb417-3364-4fbf-a9dd-4feda680ec9cPost%3a41e6d676-ad38-4c26-a670-b72068fabeae&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
“...Dorsal auxiliary air-inlet doors, which open in STOVL mode to increase mass flow into the engine & generate an additional 7,000lb of vertical thrust, were found to flutter in semi-jetborne flight, causing premature hinge wear.
The initial fix was to modify operation of the large lift-fan door forward of the auxiliary inlet to stay fully open to higher airspeed on short take-offs to ‘shelter’ the clamshell doors. Instead of closing to the 35° mid position at 125kt the aft-hinged lift-fan door now stays fully open at 65° to 170kt on take-off, & begins to open to 65° at 160kt on approach to landing....”
___________

The four jet exhausts are controlled by computer in STOVL mode to provide aircraft control. At zero airspeed the flight control surfaces will have no effect. The Flight Computer controls everything.

Josef said...

Thanks for the research Dino - I agree, the thrust is ama-zing!

Josef said...

Oh and Dino, I'm not expecting perfection on a clean F-35C... just something that looks like a stealth naval aircraft I'd cross the beach with.

Sorry I hit publish too soon.

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

@Spazsinbad

Thanks for clarifying - BTW I planned to send you the Beta, although I have not received your application, but I think I lost your email address (it was in the old account I am not using anymore).

As for the lift fan door, it is technically possible to control its position, but at this point I am not pursuing the change, at least in the initial release.

@Robby

I understand. You may proceed, if you will, by changing .air file as included in the Beta (they are slightly different from the one of the old F-35 v1.00).
There are some changes to the dynamics of the -C model under evaluation - we may want to discuss this offline.

@Josef
Although it may disappoint some users, my evaluation of the model of the clean F-35C is negative. It is not on par with the rest of the package.
I am considering different loadouts to maks the defects, which are in the lower surace where the wing blends to the fuselage. That is I need the inner pylons to be loaded.

SpazSinbad said...

Thanks for the offer to test Dino but I did not apply due to 'not having sound on this computer' and hoping to get a new computer soonish etc. Certainly I look forward to seeing your F-35s on a new computer (and in Prepar3D!). You do great work.
Some small PDFs including some specifically about the F-35 are available at SpazSinbad Page at Microsoft SkyDrive: http://alturl.com/weyjf
I hope to add more specific F-35 PDFs which will include specific F-35C deck landing info soonish.

SpazSinbad said...

A 2GB PDF about 'How to Deck Land' is at same SpazSinbad SkyDrive page, in a different folder here: http://alturl.com/yhr3f
It is a not a 'step by step' guide but a collection of information about deck landing, with some brief descriptions of the procedure. However there is specific F-35C and F-35B information included with other Naval Aircraft in this large PDF. This same info specific to the F-35B & C, plus more, will be in smaller PDFs soon (some are pointed to in previous post above).

Daniele said...

Just to confirm that the shaking in vertical landings disappear with Accufeel OFF, and that the vertical cam is pretty nice.
Another minor issue: the Bingo voice, and other warning from Bitching Betty should be repeated twice, while in the beta version are repeated only one time.
Thanks for your enormous patience, cheers

/Daniele

Josef said...

Okay Dino, thanks much :-).

letourn said...

@Egan

Here the setting you can try for your TH2GO make sure to make a backup of your panel.cfg this should work fine if your using 3 monitors. It might not be the best setting but I spend a lot of time trying to find something that finally work for me. Maybe Neutrino can find better setting he is the expert.

[Window00]
Background_color=0,0,0
visible=1
ident=MAIN_PANEL
alpha_blend=0.95
//position=4 //Add for 5760 x1200
//window_pos = 0.000, 0.000 //ORIGINAL window_pos=x,y (represent % of the screen) (x right to left, y top to bottom)
window_pos = 1.000, 1.000 //Add for 5760 x1200
//window_size = 1.000, 1.000 //ORIGINAL
window_size = 0.333, 1.000 //2d Hud For Resolution at 5760 x 1200 (1 / 3)
size_mm=1024,1024



// Uncomment one of the lines below depending on your "WideViewAspect" setting in your fsx.CFG file.
// ORIGNINAL gauge00=F-35_HUD_VC!F-35_HUD_VC, 339, 245, 345, 614 // <--- F-35 2D HUD, conformal at zoom 0.8, aspect ratio 16:9 and WideViewAspect=False
//gauge00=F-35_HUD_VC!F-35_HUD_VC, 330, 230, 364, 647 // <--- F-35 2D HUD, conformal at zoom 1.5, aspect ratio 16:9 and WideViewAspect=True
gauge00=F-35_HUD_VC!F-35_HUD_VC, 377, 326, 270, 475 // <--- F-35 2D HUD, NONE CONFORMAL ONLY FOR DISPLAY TH2GO TESTING, aspect ratio 16:9 and WideViewAspect=True


//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window01]
Background_color=0,0,0
visible=0
ident=MAIN_PANEL
alpha_blend=0.90
//position=5 //ORIGINAL
window_pos = 1.000, 1.000 //Add for 5760 x1200
//window_size= 1.000, 1.000 //Original
window_size= 0.333, 1.000 //Add for 5760 x1200
size_mm = 1024 //Add for 5760 x1200


gauge00=F35!F35HMD, 0, 0, 1024, 1024

Robby said...

[VC]Like other comments: it would be nice to insert the "camera-down" in MFD (page3) obviously in stovl/hover- mode only.

[OM]In real plane (B) Exhaust nozzle move left/right to control yaw. It would be nice to see. Don't know if hard to implement.

SpazSinbad said...

The F-35C had some bad press at beginning of the year about 'not being able to land on an aircraft carrier' (not that it was trying to do that at that time but accuracy is never realised in 'bad press'). Anyway here is the latest:
How well is F-35 testing going? 07 June 2012 by Barry Graff
http://whythef35.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/how-well-is-f-35-testing-going.html
“...All numbers and events are as of May 31st [2012].... CF-3 performed a total of 18 successful roll-in arrestments [MK-7 (6 with risers and 4 with no risers) and E-28 (8 arrestments)] at Lakehurst from 80 to 100 knots ground speed....”

ScimmiaSpaziale said...

Beta 2 testing is over.

Thank you all for you comments and suggestions!

Anonymous said...

hello
Heelp !!
we turn on AP and set ALT , automatically VSI is set to 9900 fpm !!!
the F-35 start to dive or clime very sharp, so I had to pause the game and set the ALT and set the VSI to 1800 fpm then resume the game to have a regular operation on AP on F-35 on FSX
Help to overcome on this issue )))